MP warns against plan for traditional mosque in Lichfield

A traditional mosque. Pic: Synthia K

A traditional mosque. Pic: Synthia K

EXCLUSIVE: A campaign to build a mosque and create a Muslim burial ground in Lichfield is gathering pace – but the city’s MP has expressed reservations about the scheme.

A leading Asian businessman in the city is believed to be behind the plans and has held initial talks with local politicians.

It is believed that the project would involve a traditional mosque, complete with dome and minaret.

However, Lichfield MP Michael Fabricant, who confirmed he and other city politicians had been approached regarding the planned mosque, has warned against a development which would not be in-keeping with the character of the city. He said:

“While it is for the Council to make its own planning decisions, I do not think that domes and minarets are appropriate in a heritage City like Lichfield.

“I am told that mosques need not be of middle eastern design and can be made to fit in with the architecture of the area.”

As well as the style of the mosque, a traditional amplified system of calling to prayer has also been suggested.

But Mr Fabricant has also criticised the suggestion:

Michael Fabricant MP

Michael Fabricant MP

“I do not think it right that those not of the Muslim faith should be subjected to calls to prayer against their will. Tolerance works both ways and one religion should not seek to impose itself on those of another or no religion.”

Despite his reservations over a proposed new mosque, Mr Fabricant did believe it could be possible for a Muslim centre of worship to exist in Lichfield.

“Britain is a tolerant nation and all religious groups have a right to worship in their own way. It will be up to the small Muslim community in Lichfield to find a suitable building and apply for planning permission from Lichfield District Council in the normal way.”

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Founder of LichfieldLive and editor of the site.

267 Comments

  1. Phil

    1st April, 2009 at 4:34 pm

    If any mosque is stopped from using an “amplified call to prayer system” wouldn’t that also mean that Lichfield Cathedral’s use of bells would have to be reviewed, in the name of “tolerance”?

  2. captain tom

    1st April, 2009 at 6:27 pm

    I agree with phil! I am a life long citizen of Lichfield and was brought up at my parents house next to St Michaels Church and attended St Michaels C of E school.
    Twice a week the bells of the church summon the Christians. I believe that a traditional mosque in Lichfield would be a good thing for the city.

  3. matt

    1st April, 2009 at 6:49 pm

    i cant see why we’d want a mosque in lichfield? its not as if there’s a large muslim community here. phil, I think that in the name of ‘english’ a cathedral is within its rights to use bells.

  4. schreps

    1st April, 2009 at 7:32 pm

    “I do not think it right that those not of the Muslim faith should be subjected to calls to prayer against their will.” – it’s not a form of torture – it’s religion for godsake.

    As for a mosque “not fitting it with the character of the city”, i challenge someone to find a city in the UK which does cater for such a building like a mosque in terms of character..

    If we’re moving towards a more multi-cultural society than we can’t have barriers that are based on how buildings might look.

  5. GrovesMedia

    1st April, 2009 at 7:42 pm

    I think there are several reasons to take issue with our MP’s concerns regarding this proposal. Phil has hit the nail on the head with one of them.

    But the one I keep coming back to is: “I do not think that domes and minarets are appropriate in a heritage City like Lichfield.”

    Whereas the new Tesco superstore, Friarsgate, the existing shopping streets, not to mention the various developments that make up Legotown presumably are sympathetic to the rich character and history of ye olde city?

    If this community is strong and determined enough to create a place of worship in the city then they deserve support. And they could probably teach the rest of us a few valuable lessons along the way too.

  6. Nick Brickett

    1st April, 2009 at 8:16 pm

    “I do not think that domes and minarets are appropriate in a heritage City like Lichfield.”

    A KFC, however, is a different matter. Right?!

  7. emma

    1st April, 2009 at 8:17 pm

    I agree with Matt.There does not seem to be a large Muslim community in Lichfield so is there really a need for a mosque? The cathedral is a beautiful, historic building which attracts tourists from afar, I don’t think I could say the same about a mosque!

  8. Phil

    1st April, 2009 at 9:16 pm

    Tom – not sure what you’re agreeing with me on. I only asked a question :)

    Matt – I agree, a Cathedral is well within it’s rights to use it’s bells. For the same reasons, any Lichfield Mosque should also have the right to use some kind of call to prayer system of their own.

    Schreps – Great point! Middle Eastern designs, as Fabricant calls them, are exactly that – Middle Eastern – they won’t “fit” into any English city because they’re not English. Any country that wants to be multi-cultural though, should realise that that means accepting all aspects of other cultures, including architecture.

    GrovesMedia and Nick also good points. I challenge anyone to make a convincing case that “Minster Gateway”, Friarsgate, Tesco, Lidl, Waitrose, Lichfield Police headquarters, the Garrick, Beacon Park Retirement Village, Lichfield South, Samuel Johnson Community Hospital, “Birmingham Road Transport Hub”, City Wharf and “The Friary” development are in keeping with the character of the city, with all it’s old architecture.

    This sounds like double standards. I hope it’s not, and I hope Fabricant can further justify his views on a traditional Mosque in our little city.

  9. Pingback: | Faith Freedom International

  10. M Willis

    2nd April, 2009 at 12:30 pm

    There is a limit to tolerance. Build a mosque in Lichfield and ain a short time there will be Islamic festivals and your city would be over flowing with traffic and processions. Go and try to build a church in a muslim country and then realise how intolerant and hypocritical Islam is.
    M W Cannock Staffs

  11. Michael Fabricant

    2nd April, 2009 at 1:02 pm

    Reading some of these comments, I think I need to clarify some of my remarks.

    I have no objection at all to a mosque or any other place of worship in Lichfield. All religions have a right to worship. It’s up to the Council to decide what sort of construction they allow, but I personally feel that a middle eastern style mosque in the heritage area of Lichfield would be as inappropriate as the building on the corner of Minster Pool and Bird Street (which I think is truly ghastly – the building, not the mosque).

    I may be wrong, but I believe that the majority of the constituents I represent would not like to hear an amplified voice with an Arabic call to prayer several times a day in Lichfield. They enjoy the relative calm despite traffic rumble. Yes, there are bells, but it seems they sound less intrusive to many than the human voice.

  12. jim

    2nd April, 2009 at 1:08 pm

    Just know what you are asking for…..

    Church bells ring, what, on sundays for a few minutes?
    I’m not sure, I only lived in New York for a little while.

    I lived in Malaysia and Kuwait for a long time.

    The call to prayer is 5 times A DAY, lasts for tens of minutes sometimes…extra long on Friday. Oh and the first one….is before sunrise. Enjoy

  13. Neil

    2nd April, 2009 at 2:32 pm

    The “leading Asian businessman” in question runs the Eastern Eye restaurant in Bird Street. Lichfield District Council Environmental Health Department operate a “star” scheme for food businesses and I was horrified to see that his restaurant has been awarded no stars!

    The website http://www.ratemyplace.org.uk allows you to view the star ratings and read the Food Safety report written by the Environmental Health Officer: The inspection report for Eastern Eye is stomach-churning! Maybe the owner should concentrate on cleaning his restaurant and producing food safely before planning to open a mosque.

  14. Stowe Pool Tom

    2nd April, 2009 at 3:21 pm

    This is great news, i realy hope the mosque goes ahead. I for one would welcome the sound of call to prayer. I have put up with the bells of the cathedral for as long as i can remember. The sound of a mosque would make a welcome change!

  15. boley roley

    2nd April, 2009 at 5:15 pm

    I agree with Marek 100% Lichfield is a christian city,i lived in inner city Birmingham for many years and you cant get from A to B come one oclock on a friday afternoon.This would be a disaster for Lichfield we are slowly loosing our identity in this country, muslims do not intergrate into our way of life,before you know it islam will be taught in our schools and this is a fact believe me ive seen it happen.

  16. steph

    2nd April, 2009 at 5:15 pm

    i really thought this was an April Fool until i saw Michael Fabricant’s comment!!

    i mean, “a traditional mosque, complete with dome and minaret.” – this is Lichfield we’re talking about!!

    We’re not even allowed a decent shopping centre, cinema or nightclub because it would “spoil the character/heritage” of the city !

  17. Alex Mowbray

    2nd April, 2009 at 5:49 pm

    OK, I’m embarrassed. I thought it was an April Fool as well !

  18. Angela Cooke

    2nd April, 2009 at 6:04 pm

    We’ve just moved into Lichfield and we love the city because of its heritage and its Christian influence, but we would have second thoughts of staying if a mosque was built. Why do you think we live here and not in Birmingham where we work, because we want to feel like we are living in the UK and not in the middle east which is how you feel in Birmingham. Its actually nice to feel that you live in Britain and feel proud of it. I think there is enough places for the muslim religion, but there intolerance assumes that even within a small community they should impose a building that would change Lichfield from being renowned as beinga cathedral city.

  19. Lindsey (ethel & edna)

    2nd April, 2009 at 6:18 pm

    I still think it is an April Fool. Who says Michael Fabricant hasn’t got a sense of humour?

  20. Sammy J

    2nd April, 2009 at 6:48 pm

    Promise it’s no April Fool – we put the story up after 12noon to avoid that accusation.

  21. boley roley

    2nd April, 2009 at 6:54 pm

    I still think it is an April Fool. Who says Michael Fabricant hasn’t got a sense of humour?

    Must admit Michael does have a sense of humour but my phone hasnt stopped going all day from boley park to the dimbles.As Alex said above we moved here because we are both jewish and christian people and lichfield cathedral did it for us, we became aliens in birmingham alum rock,small heath and sparkbrook if i honestly say “yes we were ethnically cleansed”

  22. 66usual

    2nd April, 2009 at 7:12 pm

    never going to happen. This story has appeared purely to spark debate, which is fair enough. Lichfield is a thousand years from getting a mosque, as described.

    The local muslim community might find some meeting space they could rent to support their faith, and good luck to them

  23. Lichfieldbornandbred

    2nd April, 2009 at 11:24 pm

    Check the date!!!

  24. Soap Distant

    3rd April, 2009 at 9:26 am

    There’s no way on God’s green earth this is going to happen. Where’s the money going to come from? Lichfield’s huge muslim population? Even if there was funding available, there’s absolutely no way a building such as the one described would be given planning permission in the centre of Lichfield.

    It’s good to see that this story has highlighted what decent, tolerant, and above all, literate people we have in Lichfield though:

    http://www.facebook.com/wall.php?id=62575044222&page=2&hash=c5c629402e018b2d46b6be817a6f1cc0&nctrct=1238746653855#/group.php?gid=62575044222

  25. Wyrdtimes

    3rd April, 2009 at 10:16 am

    This needs to be fought all the way.

    When the planning application is submitted we need to get a petition going against the idea.

    Muslims don’t need a special building to point themselves at Mecca any more than Christians need churches to pray in.

    Personally I think the Cathedral should donate part of itself for the worship of all faiths. That should do the trick.

  26. Sammy J

    3rd April, 2009 at 10:31 am

    Lichfieldbornandbred – I can assure you it’s no April Fool.

  27. Wigot

    3rd April, 2009 at 10:58 am

    Someone please ask our venerable MP for his view on “the way Sutton Coldfield has gone”

  28. Pingback: Facebook group criticises proposal for a mosque in Lichfield « Blog Archive « The Lichfield Blog

  29. james

    3rd April, 2009 at 3:01 pm

    fabricant is a doughnut, lichfield should embrace its position as a heritage site by encouraging the practise of other faiths, its the 21st century people!

  30. missf

    3rd April, 2009 at 9:43 pm

    Would they allow a church to be built on their soil?

  31. Anon

    4th April, 2009 at 1:51 am

    Lichfield Politicians are a bit up thier own arse really and if this goes ahead it would be shocking as this important civil war city is admittedly up its own arse in the town centre, and from what I am hearing the Dimbles is turning into Hackney.
    When I left Netherstowe High School there was one muslim student in my year (summer 2002 I left) I don’t know how this has changed in recent years but there is a very fine line really, if it gets turned down it will be called a ‘Racist act’ and if it is approved then there will be uproar from the mainly non muslim community of the city. Given that there many shops are closing due to the current econimc climate how can there be consideration for a mosque in a city that has only one non supermarket outlet for DVD purchases, seriously a CeX or a Blockbusters would be a perfect fit for the city but because it doesn’t reflect the character of the city they get turned down.

    Sorry if this seems ranty, and to those who think its an April Fool, read all the comments for petes sakes

  32. Tommy

    4th April, 2009 at 12:14 pm

    This is England ! lichfield has a good mainly christain population, if there is a mosque built, than Lichfield will have a simular popluation to Birmingham in a few years time is this what u want ???????
    Lichfield is well known for it catherdrial do you want it to become better known for its mosque???????
    If u went over to Pakistan and tried to buld a Church there you would be deported or killed !

  33. Matt

    4th April, 2009 at 9:14 pm

    Down with the mosque, sure have a building on the outskirts where u can worship if u want but not a temple with a dome and tower just so you can try out do the cathedral. And as for the call to prayer system, Ha what a joke. The city of Lichfield wont stand for it!

  34. Rebecca

    5th April, 2009 at 4:31 pm

    I think this is absoloutely outrageous! I don’t believe that this is necessary in somewhere that has such a small amount of muslims! Lichfield is an historical city and somewhere I have always been proud of but if this is built I don’t know if I would feel the same way and if it goes ahead it really will show how spineless the council is with these things. I’m not against the muslim population I just believe that this is not necessary considering the size and surrounding of Lichfield and I’m sure that they don’t require a huge mosque to pray. I know that if I moved to a muslim country i certainly wouldn’t expect them to build a church for me and would consider my faith strong enough to do without a church. This is an absoloutely unnecessary and ridiculous proposal.

  35. Tom Anderson

    5th April, 2009 at 9:42 pm

    There’s no case against it – I don’t think the Christian Population of Lichfield is big enough to warrant a Cathedral and multiple churches dotted around. Is it so much to ask to build 1 Mosque?

    And, how about:

    “I do not think it right that those not of the Muslim faith should be subjected to calls to prayer against their will.”

    Well, I’m ‘subjected’ to the Cathedral bells more than enough thank you.

  36. Tom Anderson

    5th April, 2009 at 9:55 pm

    “before you know it islam will be taught in our schools and this is a fact believe me ive seen it happen.”

    Seen it happen, where exactly? And how is this worse than Christianity being taught in schools?

    England isn’t a Christian country, it’s just primarily Christian.

    Marek – I would have quoted your post, but frankly it’s 100% rubbish. But, it doesn’t matter how intolerant Islamic nations are, this has nothing to do with that. This is about Muslims in Lichfield, and them having a place of prayer in their city.

  37. Crinkly

    6th April, 2009 at 12:22 am

    “And women are facing difficult times as they are unable to learn about the English culture and language.”

    The above quote says it all!!
    Do the women not know they can learn English and many other subjects at schools/colleges etc .
    Does the gentleman realize Lichfield has an excellent library that caters for most subjects including Hygiene/Health&safety/English Language and Culture?
    Why do the women need a foreign type building to learn about where they live?

  38. ex muslim

    6th April, 2009 at 9:20 am

    dear all,

    some of you here are truly muslim aplogists. multi culturalism is your ideal. you want to see melting pot or religions at you hometown. but please remember! if you want to have multi-culturalism is fine, but multi religious with islam is totally impossible because there’s no tolerance in their holy quran. if you want to rebut my view, it’s up to you. but i urge you to read the holy quran first before rebutting any of my statements.

  39. April Setchell

    6th April, 2009 at 11:41 am

    I don’t understand how some people can be so against building a mosque in Lichfield. Most people don’t even realise that they are no where near as elaborate as a church, they’re just normal buildings.
    The argument that Lichfield is a traditional city is no longer valid, seeing as it is a multi-ethnic city. Is it traditional to have more than 1 culture living in 1 city? No.
    It makes me laugh how most of the people who don’t want the inevitable mosque begin their arguments with ‘I’m not being racist, but..’ which obviously means that they are thinking about the fact that what they are doing is depriving the people of Lichfield what they need. A place of worship.
    How many churches do we need for a city that is merely half-full of christians, with the rest being of different religions.
    As you can probably tell, i am all FOR Lichfield having a mosque. How on earth will it affect anyone else’s life apart from those of the deprived Muslims of Lichfield? It doesn’t.
    A mosque IS going to be built regardless of how many racists fight against it. It WILL happen.
    I’m just sick of people following the crowd, saying that Lichfield shouldn’t have a mosque, based on the views of other people. It seems ridiculous to me that people who think Islam is a COUNTRY are being counted as people will real views.
    I’m 17 and i’m passionate about Humanism, I am not a Muslim, Christian, Jew, Sikh or any religion that believes in a supreme being: I have the belief that people should make the most of this life, as it is a very short one in the long run.
    A mosque would not affect the lives of anyone other than Muslims who NEED a place to worship their God.
    It disheartens me that a lot of people are prepared to deny Muslims of what they need.

  40. Dale

    6th April, 2009 at 12:08 pm

    If they can’t tollerate other religions in their territory why should we tollerate them in ours?
    Not only are there tollerence issues, but where is all the funding going to come from in the current climate? For the few people this would actually benefit i could think of a number of reasons what the money and land could be used for that would benefit 100x the number of people.
    A complete waste of money and resources.

  41. brummie

    6th April, 2009 at 5:06 pm

    i would just like to point out to ex muslim that the proposed call to prayer system will affect poeple who live close to that biulding , first call to prayer is around sunrise i belive how would you like that on your door step?

  42. lfc

    6th April, 2009 at 9:57 pm

    now way a bloody mosque should be built anywhere in britain why do we sit in silence would they let us build a church of england in there home land ?

  43. Bryan Yates

    7th April, 2009 at 1:42 pm

    I can see no reason for another Mosque in the area, Birmingham, Walsall, Wolverhapton, Burton have dozens, and given the numbers of people who would patronise it, it seems a crazy idea. Also where would it fit in with the city centre, we have enough hidious looking shops, banks and other peices of arcitecture in the city centre now without any more.
    Could you of imagine getting planning permission for a C of E church in down town Baghdad or Karbul etc.. I don’t think so!
    Bryan

  44. I love Lichfield

    8th April, 2009 at 6:20 am

    Wtf are they thinking????? Why should we tolerate a religion that goes out of its way to be intolerant towards other religions???? I remember reading on the web about a group of christians that tried to build a church in Iran, they were arrested for racism and two of them were publically executed!!! Why should we put up with a religion that sees that as acceptable?

  45. Soap Distant

    8th April, 2009 at 9:54 am

    “I remember reading on the web about a group of christians that tried to build a church in Iran, they were arrested for racism and two of them were publically executed!!!”

    I don’t think racism is a crime in Iran. I have no doubt that that might have happened, but that’s got nothing to do with Islam the religion, that’s Iran the country. Nazi Germany was a christian country, does that mean all christians are Nazis?

  46. Phil

    8th April, 2009 at 10:06 am

    It’s almost funny how so many of the arguments against a Mosque in Lichfield are based on whether Muslim countries would allow a Church. Making that argument surely is just demonstrating the same level of intolerance.

  47. Soap Distant

    8th April, 2009 at 10:37 am

    Yeah, let’s not allow a ‘mosque’ because ‘they’ (whoever ‘they’ are, the people who want a mosque are British and don’t have any ties to any other country) wouldn’t allow a church to be built in ‘their’ country. ‘They’ also stone adulterers and gay people (bear in mind I’m deliberately making a sweeping statement), does that mean we should too?

  48. Soap Distant

    8th April, 2009 at 10:41 am

    Also, I used to live down the road from a mosque, there were no domes, no minarets, no loud calls to prayer, it was just a building where people would go and worship. The only problem was parking when there was a wedding there. This is all the Muslim population of Lichfield want, they don’t want anything extravagant in the centre of Lichfield, just a building where they can go and worship, paid for out of their own pockets. Hardly seems like an unreasonable request does it?

  49. Jude

    8th April, 2009 at 1:22 pm

    It is depressing to see how this topic has brought out so many mean spirited and ignorant comments. I was so sad to see that awful “Against mosque being built in Lichfield” facebook group. If the group really wanted peoples opinions it would be “What do you think about a mosque being built in Lichfield”. Thank goodness for the few voices of reason e.g. GrovesMedia and Phil (most comments are simply displays of racist venom and ignorance). Sigh

  50. Crinkly

    9th April, 2009 at 11:47 am

    How many of the 12 arrested go to “Church of England” and how many to the “Mosque”?

  51. Soap Distant

    9th April, 2009 at 12:41 pm

    My, you’re a clever chap aren’t you? Let’s judge every religion by their worst examples shall we? By your logic, all Christians are gun toting redneck hicks who hate gays and think the apocalypse will come as soon as the Jews get their homeland back.

  52. Hannah

    9th April, 2009 at 2:59 pm

    Whatever happened to turn the other cheek? If we are a christian city, let’s act like it.

  53. John

    9th April, 2009 at 3:13 pm

    Where an individual goes to pray, if they so wish, is a private matter. I that imparts on another then it is wrong.
    I am all or any faith having the ability to pray, or whatever it is they do….but let’s be clear on one point, being anti-Islam is not racist. Religion is not a matter of race or creed but a matter of choice. Facts please.

  54. Soap Distant

    9th April, 2009 at 3:32 pm

    It’s not racist. It is bigoted.

  55. Soap Distant

    9th April, 2009 at 3:38 pm

    And let’s face it, most of the people are against this mosque not because they’ve made a full study of the Koran and all its teachings and decide that Islam isn’t a nice religion, it’s either because OMG, ALL MUZLIMZ IS TERRORISTSSZZZZZ or they’re just out and out racists. Me? I’m an atheist, but if people want to believe in fairy tales, that’s up to them.

  56. lfc

    9th April, 2009 at 11:35 pm

    phil tour an idiot maybe u should move to pakistan

  57. lfc

    9th April, 2009 at 11:39 pm

    this countrry has been ignorant too long bout time it opened its eyes and see what has become of it maybe they would like us to pay for it aswell

  58. Billyjim

    9th April, 2009 at 11:52 pm

    Notice how the vast majority of people against this mosque have terrible grammar. This suggests, does it not, that these people are uneducated fools who are jumping on the bandwagon?
    I ask each person to give one SPECIFIC reason that they are against the idea of a mosque in Lichfield, without using “they wouldn’t let us have a church in their country”.
    Have you ever been to church? It’s fairly safe to say that vicars, reverends etc would be for a mosque- Christianity is based on acceptance- a point made by Hannah in a previous post.
    The muslims in Lichfield have lived here for a long time, they have British passports- they are tolerant of Christianity, with all its bells and whistles (pun intended). Why can’t a city such as Lichfield, a traditional heritage city which is rapidly moving into the 21st century WHILST keeping its character, finally embrace people who have lived here all their lives, and just want a place to worship?

    The following arguments have been made:
    “The council shouldn’t be funding a mosque”- This has been entirely speculation, in none of the reports has it been suggested that the council would be funding it, if it were to go ahead.
    “It’s not inkeeping with the traditional character of Lichfield”- Read Phil’s post- neither is the Garrick, the shopping centre, Morrisons, Tesco (especially not at the minute), Waitrose, pretty much everything in Lichfield isn’t inkeeping with the traditional character.
    “The prayer calls will disturb me”- It’s been said that mosques don’t have to have calls- read the responses.

    As far as I’ve seen, that’s pretty much the only arguments made against this mosque- all thrown out.

    Therefore, get it built, and make it nice.

  59. Matt Gibbon

    10th April, 2009 at 1:18 am

    I’m really not sure why the “they wouldn’t allow a church in their country” argument is brought up so often. Quite a lot of predominantly muslim countries were occupied by europeans at some point, and have had churches for years…
    Saying that we are being taken over by muslim immigrants in this country is also a bit rich, what with our country’s foreign policy.

  60. chris b

    10th April, 2009 at 11:27 am

    Have you been to church Billyjim? I suspect not or you would know that that most vicars etc. would be against a mosque, after all there is a bit about not worshipping other gods in the ten commandments. You say that Christianity is about acceptance – true to a point, we accept that Jesus was born of a virgin, died that our sins might be forgiven, and rose on the third day to give us eternal life, and we accept other people; we do not accept their actions necessarily. For instance sexual immorality, criminal behaviour or in this case worshipping false gods. As for Muslims being tolerant of Christians, perhaps you could name a few predominantly Muslim countries where Christians are not persecuted? And by persecuted I don’t mean not allowed to build churches. Even in ‘tolerant’ Islamic countries like Malaysia, where the are churches, converts from Islam receive jail sentences for apostasy – is this really the kind of teaching you want to appease? Yes I’m sure there are plenty of Muslims who are good people. Oscar Schindler was a good person, he was also a member of the Nazi party, does that somehow make Nazism good? The fact is that whatever is said about tolerance within the Muslim community their holy book specifically says Christians and Jews should be killed – is that OK with you?

    I do agree with you on one point, that of the Garrick theatre not being in keeping with the rest of Lichfield. Like several buildings in the area it is an abomination and should never have been built – so why build another abomination.

    Finally, your point about grammar and uneducated fools really does show your conceit. For someone who spouts acceptance and tolerance you don’t have much yourself. Do you honestly believe that only those who are educated or intelligent should have the right to a view or opinion? Should a dyslexic be mocked as a fool because of their spelling? Do you think that only those blessed with keyboard and language skills matter? On that basis it would be logical that anyone under a certain IQ should not be given the vote because they are obviously incapable of making the correct decision. I do wonder if the grammar of the British Muslim community would meet with your approval? Especially the large number of wives brought over from Pakistan who never learn English, or do their views get some kind of special dispensation from you?

    Far from throwing out all the arguments, I feel that all you have done is show that you fail to understand peoples very real concerns.

  61. Simon Hogan / burntwood

    10th April, 2009 at 3:46 pm

    see … just read all above and i think you will find religeion is the root of all arguments..maybe lets pull down cathedral and have no mosque etc and have none at all and we`ll have non of the above arguments…..

    as for kfc , tesco etc they are businesses that bring employment not like a place of preaching that , brings no money in and do not tower over lich…. oh and will we be allowed to have bower day etc too if its built as dont want to upset anyone if it conceeds with a muslim fesitval eh ;o)
    ………. its quite simple really, most people cant get planning on an extension on their 3 bed semi via the councill so why can`t hey just say no to this???? afraid of upsetting anyone? well put a vote to the borough and see what they say … we live in a democrasy so lets have one… all those in borough in favour of mosque say ” yay” all against say ” nay” .. you could send out the forms in the mercury… let the people decide ..
    come on mr Fabricant.. we put you there to voice peoples opinion… so put it to a vote.. Simples ;o)

  62. Asim

    10th April, 2009 at 8:25 pm

    Perhaps the mosque could be built without the dome and minaret. This would help the building to integrate in its surrounding.

  63. lfc

    11th April, 2009 at 2:10 am

    anyone can tell me what a british person would get out of a mosque in lich we would not be let through the doors our church is open to everyone.as for my grammer that won’t get me into the either lol.everytime english people voice there opinion we r either shot down or called rasists which i am not. imigrints that come to our country and become so called british citizens should there for be british does there country recognise our religion would they build me a church so could pray don’t think so.This country has become soft bout time it stood behind the real british citizens for a change.Far too many benefits being handed out maybe why the country is in such a downward slide i know what i would vote stop takin em in and no way to a mosque………………

  64. lfc

    11th April, 2009 at 2:15 am

    asim perhaps we don’t won’t it built at all mmmm

  65. G. Watson

    11th April, 2009 at 6:00 am

    I am surprised that so many people are arguing that Muslims should not be allowed to have a new mosque here because Christians can’t build a church in ‘their’ countries. I assume those who are making that point also believe that two wrongs make a right.

  66. lfc

    11th April, 2009 at 1:19 pm

    yes mate equality mr watson

  67. o'cearbhall

    11th April, 2009 at 2:34 pm

    And so it starts. I notice in this weeks Mercury, Salam is calling for restraint and understanding for his ethnic minority and for the comments on the facebook blog ( I haven’t seen them) to be stopped. Let’s bear in mind, that he has been courting all the press this week, the B’ham post, the express and star etc, but still as the gall to call for calm on something he started himself. Let’s be honest , is it not pure provocation on his part to want his mosque near Westminster Pool and the Cathedral with minorets and calls to prayer. Lichfield does not have a large muslim community and certainly does’nt need at mosque.

  68. Simon Hogan / burntwood

    11th April, 2009 at 6:29 pm

    here here o`cearbhall!!!

    yes there are churches around the world but would you ever see a cathederal built in mecca???? i think not.. and as for him wanting to stop facebook comments , he came to thsi country to live free, open his own business , and prosper and free speech.. so people should be free to protest just as they can against siolders coming back from iraq or the world leaders… freedom of speeh!!

    ps maybe we need a pm like this….. http://www.hoax-slayer.com/howard-muslim-speech.shtml

  69. Julie

    11th April, 2009 at 8:16 pm

    As a convert to Islam living in Lichfield it would be good to have a mosque that is in character with the city – mosques all over the world are very different depending on the countries they are in. The call to prayer is not used in England at all as far as I am aware so people need not be worried about that. However the mosque would need to be a community centre – where women can also pray and non-muslims can see traditional Islam as a vibrant, open questioning faith. The Daily Mail version of Islam most people are exposed to is the equivalent of seeing Christianity through the eyes of the Spainish Inquisition. Lichfield is a small place with relatively few Muslims so a mosque would have to be embracing of all aquida (sects) and all cultures, including european cultures- it could be a fantastic place!

  70. lfc

    11th April, 2009 at 8:42 pm

    good man simon hogan

  71. lfc

    11th April, 2009 at 8:46 pm

    julie u got welcome tattooed on ur back so they can leave there shoes on u before they go to pray u won’t get in that mosque until u have to tidy after them.

  72. lfc

    11th April, 2009 at 8:58 pm

    ok will change my mind on having a mosque in lich as long as they have a pig roast twice a week

    ps don’t forget the apple sauce and stuffing

  73. o'cearbhall

    11th April, 2009 at 9:10 pm

    Dear Julie, what ever do you mean ” a community centre where woman can also pray” ? are you not allowed to pray in your own mosque if your a woman? I thought you had a reserved section for women not a community centre. Are men going to be driven into a fit of licentious frenzy if women are in the same prayer room as them Wow, what a “vibrant open questioning “faith you have. As regards to the call to prayer, does the B’ham central mosque have a call to prayer? I am sure it does. And of course you mention non muslims, you see there you go seperating and catogrising people already even before you’ve got the thing. As regards a fantastic place; for whom would it be a fantastic place? certainly not the vast vast majority of Lichfield people. A classic case of the minority dictating to the majority yet again.

  74. Jackie

    11th April, 2009 at 10:55 pm

    I have lived in and around Lichfield all my life, over 40 years, and I have seen and witnessed other areas, that do have mosques and inevitably a much larger muslim community, so much so, that English/British are the minority in their own community. This country is frightened to say no to muslims for some reason. The reason Lichfield does not have a large muslim community is most probably because we DONT have a mosque. And thats a good thing. I have no problem with anyone coming here and living here, but intergrate with us, the Brits!! Anyone can come here, live here, use our health service (Pay into it too!!), I have no problem with that at all, but i am sick of hearing “I cant work here, it serves alcohol, or i cant cook that food in the cafe i work in, it serves pork! Well of course it does because this is the UK and thats what we do here, did they not research it before they chose it as their home? Come and live here, and adapt to us, do not expect us to adapt to them. If they do not like our country and its customs, they have the right to leave, no one is making them stay!! I say no to a mosque, keep Britian British. Visitors welcome.

  75. Jackie

    11th April, 2009 at 11:01 pm

    Just one question? If I went to Iraq or somewhere similar and wore a short skirt and sat in the street reading the bible, what do you think would happen to me??

  76. nuteck

    12th April, 2009 at 12:04 am

    Unfortunately we no longer live in our British democracy; in fact we live in a one-sided land which does not think about those who are true brits.
    I certainly do not want this in Lichfield like the majority who live here. I’m glad Mr G Watson above sees it as a wrong. Britain and freedom of speech was something envied all over the world; shame it has been taken away from us.

  77. lfc

    12th April, 2009 at 12:10 am

    jackie u r the leader of our clan ur too modest in ur views please please let rip lol no only joking every thing u say is the truth i stand side by side with ur opinion well done for speaking out so truthfully

  78. lfc

    12th April, 2009 at 12:14 am

    jackie there r no leaders but maybe we shouild all put ourselves forward as candidate s for lichfierld as there is no backbone to this country.

  79. lfc

    12th April, 2009 at 12:16 am

    mr g watson can crawl up his own arse 4 me

  80. o'cearbhall

    12th April, 2009 at 1:20 am

    Look at us playing blog tennis whist the real culprit is probably by now sitting in his counting house……..as the nursery rhyme goes…. you know the rest I’m sure. I read in the Birmingham evening Mail that he fears for his safety now. What an absolute load of over reactionary rubbish. What’s the betting next week he will ask for police protection in order too gain the muslim as ” victim” vote. Remember everyone that he was the one who left all the rubbish in Beacon park a few year ago for the council to clear up. Workmen on minimum wage no doubt shovelling up cold curry into wheelbarrows, what a disgrace.

  81. Andy

    12th April, 2009 at 4:29 pm

    I think some of you have lost the plot. I have no objection to Muslims having a place to worship, but there are clearly some points to be made. Appearing in the Lichfield Mercury just prior to the start of Holy Week (an important and sensitive part of the Christian Calendar) and suggesting Minster Pool (part of the Cathedral Precinct) as an appropriate site is nothing short of antagonistic. Appearing again on Maundy Thursday saying people should be tolerant is simply adding insult to injury. Other Cultures came to this country because of what it is, not what they want to turn it into. If I want to see mountains, I go to a mountainous country, if I want heat I go to a hot country, if I want to see domes and minarets, I go to a Muslim Country.

  82. Crinkly

    12th April, 2009 at 6:47 pm

    o’cearbhall – shovelling up cold curry into wheelbarrows – Did the council charge for the work or did “I” pay for it to be done ?
    If i drop litter i know what will happen to me!

  83. Adamo

    13th April, 2009 at 7:01 pm

    Point 1. There are many churches in majority muslim countries like Syria, Turkey, Malaysia, Pakistan, Egypt. Point 2. Lichfield and England (founded on paganism) lost its so-called Christian heritage, years ago. Point 3. The mosque is to cater for the local muslim population, who also pay their taxe’s. Point 3. The mosque will not have a call to prayer, though, a morning call to prayer will be a great alarm clock to get all the lazy’s out of bed. Point 4. Islam, as the second biggest religion in the world is taught in schools as part of the RE curriculum and has been for many years. Point 5. Mr Fabricant, you are supposed to represent the views of all constituents. Point 6. Islam is not defined on racial terms, study some history and you will know what I am talking about. Point 7. I almost chuckle, when non-muslims who abandoned their faith a long time ago (apart from when there are births, deaths, and marriages), get all Holier-than-Thou, when a faith-observant section of the community want a self-funding place of worship. The wonder’s of irony.

  84. o'cearbhall

    13th April, 2009 at 8:40 pm

    Wow, I’ve just logged in to find a diatribe addressed to , well, I’m not sure really; to Mr Fabricant being one and I suppose to the rest of us pagan, post Christian, idolatrous ignoramuses. The true colours are coming out. The wonders of Irony. Off the top of my head then I can’t resist a response. Christians are the most persecuted people in the Countries listed. They are murdered along with priests and other religious and are leaving those countries at an alarming rate.. dare I mention the injustice dished out to homosexuals, adulterous women , and the underprivileged and anyone who even thinks about blasphemy or apostasy. So please don’t preach about pagan history when you still odiously practice pagan punishments. England and Lichfield certainly hasn’t lost it’s Christian heritage, my church is packed on Sunday! with 2 services. I think we all know that islam like Christianity is not bound by ethnicity, I don’t know where your coming from on that one. I partly agree with your last point though but when a populace as had decades and decades of liberal social engineering forced upon it, when the church is considered to be bad and every other faith good, and it’s forced down their throats from the lessons they recieve in schools to the brainwashing of TV; I am sorry to say Adamo but sooner or later people will wake up. or am I just generalising? The question is……. does Lich need a mosque, answer No!

  85. lfc

    13th April, 2009 at 10:02 pm

    adamo point 1 prove they all pay taxes and if they do they certainly get them back

  86. lfc

    13th April, 2009 at 10:07 pm

    answer 500 people want a mosque in lich and why the hell should they get what they want AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!

  87. o'cearbhall

    13th April, 2009 at 10:51 pm

    If we people of Lichfield don’t want a mosque in our town then we must write objection letters to our MP, our councillors, the district council etc. We can stop it if we are cohesive. Remember a planning application as not been applied for yet. I think part of this was our businessman’s massive ego looking for more publicity.

  88. Abdulhafid

    14th April, 2009 at 1:55 am

    What relevance does the fact that Christians or whoever is persecuted/unable to convert/unable to build a church abroad have upon the building of a place of worship by British Citizens in the UK???

    I am British of Russian extraction, I lived here for over 14 years. I have British school and University education (paid for by me and not the taxpayer), I speak English, Russian and Arabic. I sure as hell pay my taxes and work my butt off to earn a living, I have paid my way throughout and earned my Citizenship – but since I am not English or Christian, I am somehow less of a British Citizen as some posters here imply??? No wonder some people who immigrated here do not “assimilate” – since it appears that the “real” Brits do not value the concept of “British Citizen” why would the newcomers?

    Since a Christian Brit can built a church (within the planning regs) so can a Muslim Brit. What you can or cannot do in some other country has absolutely no relevance.

  89. Matt Gibbon

    14th April, 2009 at 3:43 am

    To “ifc”, the usual etiquette for racist comments is to at least show your name. Otherwise I think people are just going to ignore you as some pre teen who found the bnp website by accident…

  90. o'cearbhall

    14th April, 2009 at 9:03 pm

    Your a better man than me Abdulafid. I wish I could buy you a pint. No offence meant .This is becoming a habit and I’ve got to stop it, I keep checking the comments on this blog page; you’d think I had nothing better to do. However, what happens around the world has every relevance to what happens here. It makes me thankful that I live in England, Great Britain for one. The savage ruthless customs of some of these countries previously mentioned is already being exported so easily here. We already know where it comes from; did not Britain and a certain other country have a ” falling out” last week about it. And where does a lot of this intolerant conditioning come from…….the mosque. Know matter how much you dress it up, I still don’t want one around here.

  91. garuda

    15th April, 2009 at 11:04 pm

    You Brits are always the silly ones!! try opening a church in their country!! Whats wrong with yr stupid government!!! u give in to them and they will destroy you, dont u see how they are infiltrating your society?
    Maybe they are right after all,,,UK may become 50% muslim in 10yrs..than i pity all of you

  92. England-Slam

    16th April, 2009 at 9:52 am

    My dear friends from all religions and race, Its hard to accept that Islam is the worlds fastest growing religion, despite all efforts from anti Islamic organisations to tarnish and eradicate it, and now it has slowly begun to overcome England too. These organisations and our pathetic “English” community may succeed in stopping this place of worship being built and support a night club or a lap dancing club to be built instead, but this will certainly not stop those native English to embrace this true religion in vast numbers purely for showing what an ignorant and an ill nation that we are by such cruel remarks posted here!! Get a grip and live and let live! Visit YouTube if you are not aware of what’s going on around you! See how many of our own English blood is turning into ISLAM. LETS BE A BIT MORE CIVILISED AND SHOW A BIT OF HUMANITY AND NOT LIVE IN DENIAL!!!

  93. Lindsey

    16th April, 2009 at 10:05 am

    Why spoil a beautifull city with an ugly mosque. This city is ancient full of history, if the muslims what a mosque put it in a field far from any body with taste. I am afraid these people should adapt to our ways in dress, speach and religion. They should intergrate with us not try to set up a country within a country. We would have to adapt if we went to theirs. Many English people will vote national front in the next election, so the government and councils take note enough is enough, tell them to go back to where they came from.

  94. Soap Distant

    16th April, 2009 at 11:58 am

    Yes, let’s tell ‘them’ to go back to where ‘they’ come from. Beautiful logic there. All I can say is thank God we’re not all like you ‘Lindsey’ (if that is indeed your real name)

  95. Lindsey

    16th April, 2009 at 12:44 pm

    YES this is my real name! i speak for the TRUE ENGLISH PEOPLE!, we are sick of all the foreign whingers, and Spongers !!!!

  96. Soap Distant

    16th April, 2009 at 12:55 pm

    What about the Muslims who are born in this country? Are they not TRUE ENGLISH PEOPLE?

  97. Lindsey

    16th April, 2009 at 1:02 pm

    At least I put my true name not hide behind a fake name? It has already been brought to our attention by the police and the media that muslims born in this Country are the ones bombing Britain is this alright by you I persume you are one of these or some other nationality? So answer that!!!! or do you agree with them bombing us!!

  98. Soap Distant

    16th April, 2009 at 1:05 pm

    So, are you saying all Muslims are terrorists then?

  99. Lindsey

    16th April, 2009 at 1:17 pm

    In the Quran so i have been informed Muslims belive to kill all infedels who do not believe in there faith, Whilst on the subject of Muslims i have a few friends who are Muslims, but believe those who do not adopt our ways and traditions should be all sent home! AND THAT IS FROM A MUSLIM! So what is your real name???

  100. Soap Distant

    16th April, 2009 at 1:25 pm

    Soap. The Bible says a lot of nasty things too. Check out Deuteronomy if you don’t believe me and I think you’re talking rubbish about your Muslim ‘friends’. I don’t know why I’m arguing with you anyway. You’re clearly blind to reason.

  101. Lindsey

    16th April, 2009 at 1:36 pm

    I do have muslim friends for many years but only pick ones that want to intergrate not one like you!!
    You do not answer questions about spongers you are obviously one of these so go home from where ever your nationality lies it is not english. To be english you have to have ancestors who originated from the Saxons and Normans or ancient brits. I tell the truth!!!

  102. Soap Distant

    16th April, 2009 at 1:46 pm

    I’m not Muslim. I’m from white, Anglo Saxon stock. A PROPER ENGLISH apparently.

    I’m done arguing with you. You’re clearly too thick or blinkered to see reason.

  103. Lindsey

    16th April, 2009 at 1:53 pm

    Your real name is persil you are the one that is thick blinkered and want to ruin our Country Enoch Powell was right many years ago we should have evoked there passports and not let them in!!!!

  104. Soap Distant

    16th April, 2009 at 1:58 pm

    Even your Muslim ‘friends’? Shall we kick them out too?

  105. Lindsey

    16th April, 2009 at 2:01 pm

    No because they have accepted the English to live as white english people do!

  106. o'cearbhall

    16th April, 2009 at 2:16 pm

    England Slam, is exactly the brainwashed person I’ve been trying to warn you about. Islam is gaining strength through immigration ,sheer out numbering and over population. I was ethnically cleansed from Alum rock, then Washwood heath, then Ward end, and then Hodge hill, They will court you and woo you with crap such as inter faith dialog etc when they are in the minority and persecute and kick you out when they are in the majority. Don’t believe me, just read up on some history; world or recent English. And they have the full weight of Government legislation behind them in support. If you argue this with any politician, local or national they will ignore you and think you are a crank or fascist. Keep beating Britannia over the head with an Islamic stick and she will take it off you …..eventually. Please ask England Slam about the posters that went up in Alum rock outside non muslim houses saying ” no whites after dark”. My opinions are not based on prejudice but experience. As regards to convert to Islam; then like I’ve posted before, Man does look for something spiritual, the church is forced out as something bad; every other religion is taught as good; so what do you expect.

  107. o'cearbhall

    16th April, 2009 at 2:20 pm

    oh yeah, one other point, the BBC have recently confirmed that it treats Islam differently than any other faith due to community relations. Brainwashing. No mosque in Lich please.

  108. Lindsey

    16th April, 2009 at 2:25 pm

    My sympathy to you o’cearhall, it is what I have been trying to say!

  109. Lindsey's Big Brother

    16th April, 2009 at 2:59 pm

    Soap Distant, Just ignore her. She doesnt know what she is on about. She didnt even pass her GCSE. Currently living on the Dole unlike many well educated hard working Muslims helping the economic boom of England. Yeah she eats and sleeps off your tax money. Very fat too.. So she is there with her laptop in bed waiting to slag you off and undoubtedly me. This mosque will be built! You wait and see ;)

  110. o'cearbhall

    16th April, 2009 at 3:18 pm

    This makes me laugh….hello big brother, I think your as real as a mosque in Lich. Anyway, economic boom??? a false one bought by a chancellor who raided every pension fund, IMf, Europe and reserves of this country. Also read the reports on how much in net wealth terms recent immigration as contributed to this country. I’m not gonna tell you, you’ll think I’m lying. We’re off the Subject………Mosque……Lichfield…..yeah or neah..

  111. Lindsey

    16th April, 2009 at 3:22 pm

    I work, not fat and I have not got a big brother and I do not own a lap top so go back to your sad life!!
    For your information I passed all my Exams Hold a responsible Job I persume you are a muslim you think a mosque will be built not with an English Out Cry enough is enough, you are not well educated only very sad dogmatic muslim GO BOIL YOUR HEAD!!

  112. Samantha

    16th April, 2009 at 3:23 pm

    i thought this was a blog to raise your opinion on the Mosque in Lichfield, not slaggin ppl off! well personally you have sad life if you have to make things up about over ppl if there opinion does not suit you ! for your information i am against the mosque and Lindsey Big Brother how original really???? :(

  113. Lindsey's Big Brother

    16th April, 2009 at 3:51 pm

    Come on guys!! we are all losing it arent we..really. We are wily nily talking out loud knowing our comments will only make the Lich look a bit sick! Why dont someone organise a live debate about this whole issue either on BBC TV or Radio and let the people who knows what they are talking about handle the topic and let the jury decide what we should be really doing. I am indeed having a laugh at all of you sad people here and some soo imature in their coments and knowledge that they carry about the real world! I shall talk to the BBC and see if we can organise something. Meanwhile I’d need your support on this. More calls and e mails to the BBC will indeed make it a success. Thank you. Now all of you get back to your normal life! :) Lindsey..put the kettle on will ya!

  114. o'cearbhall

    16th April, 2009 at 3:54 pm

    Indeed, keep calm, be aware, share with others what you discover, the truth will never be suppressed. I just made that up, it sounds good…..I must remember it.

  115. o'cearbhall

    16th April, 2009 at 5:43 pm

    I’ve just been thinking, I’m going to keep away from this blog. We have been straying from the point, me included and there is a law in this land about incitement and I don’t want to be accused of that. I’ve found myself getting angry and hot under the collar.Mr Salam went for the big one, he knows what he’s doing .He may not get it but he’ll probably get a different location for now that is. But look what he’s started. Don’t let anyone mold your opinions for you, discover it yourself. I’ll still vote for a no mosque in Lich. Now, off to my day job………bye bye

  116. dave

    16th April, 2009 at 6:42 pm

    muslims don’t mix its obviouse that people on here know them they hate christians !

  117. Peter Ford

    16th April, 2009 at 7:01 pm

    As an atheist, I believe we should be tolerant of all religions, however mistaken I believe their beliefs. However, I note the point made by local MP “I do not think it right that those not of the Muslim faith should be subjected to calls to prayer against their will. Tolerance works both ways and one religion should not seek to impose itself on those of another or no religion.” Does this mean that church bells will not be rung within earshot of atheists ?

  118. Mark Bourne

    16th April, 2009 at 7:08 pm

    If a KFC was built INSTEAD of a mosque, at least ALL of the LOCAL community will be able to use KFC, unlike a special designed and built mosque for a few people.
    I suggest building a KFC and include a extra toilet like room for them to prey if they have too.
    Id even prefer another McDonald built instead of a mosque id NEVER use.
    There’s a perfectly good mosque in Birmingham as I remember, how many mosques do we need?

  119. Sue King

    16th April, 2009 at 7:27 pm

    I see no reason at all for building a mosque in Lichfield. Let us not forget that England is Church of England by official denomination, and whilst we do tolerate other religions, at leat of late, I still do not agree that every town or city should have a religious building for every religion in the world. If Muslims so rely on a bulding for their worship, why have they moved to Lichfield? No, I’m not a practising Christian, or of any other denomination, but I am English and fed up with outsiders walking into my country and riding roughshod over us all. It’s about time we stood up for our rights as English (and I don’t mean British). I can trace my origins in England back to at least the 1600’s and I’m proud ot it.

  120. Norma

    16th April, 2009 at 7:46 pm

    I was Christened in St Gabriels Church in Birmingham… the Mosque has been built next door and now a beautiful church has been completely overshadowed by the sheer size of the mosque …. I think it would be sad for Lichfield Cathedral to end up the same way.

  121. JOHNNY MASSIVE

    16th April, 2009 at 7:46 pm

    think the idea of having a mosque,next to a cathedral is rather distastfull,imagine all the extra traffic,why lichfield ?find somewhere a bit more ideal,like a industrial estate,lichfield has some much to offer as a tourist attraction etc,and i for one would STRONGLY Object to the above,Perhaps the local buisness man whos lived on the god will of the locals should put this Brainwave to bed,BETTER still if EVERONE who normally eats in his curry house never brought from there,he would take his Balti HUT else where,its about time we christians stood up for our selfs,they wouldnt let us build a church next to there MOSQUE,watch how quick they play the RACE card,its well worn out,BOYCOTT the balti curry house and let him disalear back to ALUM rock :) massive by name J MASSIVE

  122. JOHNNY MASSIVE

    16th April, 2009 at 8:16 pm

    the man that owns the balti hut,and had a good living from it should perhaps,have the good people form lichfield STOP using his BALTI HUT, the the good man will go bankrupt and leave lichfield and join his local alum roak MOSQUE

  123. reg just reg

    16th April, 2009 at 8:20 pm

    every one who uses the BALTI HUT in lichfield shouls STOP USING,then the nice man whos earned lots of good money off NICE WHITE folks would go bankrupt and go back to alum rock AND JOIN HIS LOCAL mosque

  124. John

    16th April, 2009 at 9:16 pm

    Whats the purpose behind all these Mosque’s being built.First Dudley now Lichield.And how maney other planning applications are in the pipeline.I believe there are enough Mosque’s in a 50 mile radious of Birmingham.To accomadate all the muslims in England.And who is putting up the millions of pounds to fund such a masive project they dont live in this country I bet..I support the no vote to build a mosque in Lichfield.

  125. Jack

    17th April, 2009 at 12:46 am

    I find the public outcry against a mosque in Lichfield unbelievable. What’s wrong with a bit of alternative culture coming to the town? OK – i can understand the problem if public funding is being used, a problem one might have with any religious building, but otherwise – stop this casual racism….

    To the likes of Angela suggesting “Why do you think we live here and not in Birmingham where we work, because we want to feel like we are living in the UK and not in the middle east which is how you feel in Birmingham” – you’re so small-minded it is unbelivable! Stop with your casual rascism and learn some tolerance… The best way to be proud of Britain is to share it with others, rather than aiming to keep some sense of bourgeoise ‘stiff upper lip, keep johnny foreigner out’ mentality…

    I find it really rather sad that this attitude prevails – and as for the ‘we can’t build churches over in Iraq’ – haven’t we moved on from an eye for an eye…

    Come on!

  126. o'cearbhall

    17th April, 2009 at 1:22 am

    I’m really sorry but I have to rec ind my last posting. How pathetic am I. Just got back from my labours and someone said that old Salam has been on Central news, Is this correct? Like I’ve said before he knows damn well what he’s doing. Here is some facts. Lichfield Population approx 31,ooo. Christian percentage 79%. White 98.10% muslim approx250 to 500. The figures as far as I’m concerned are very relevant. Such a small minority causes such a massive disruption! Dave above me, I am afraid to say is just as racisist with his ” bourgeoise stiff upper lip ” comment. What’s he on about. . I keep saying it but Salam knows what he’s doing. Keep watching and listening, make your own minds up. Look at the facts.

  127. Ben F

    17th April, 2009 at 2:36 am

    I will not give in to any ‘backward’ faith, I fight for Britain and the western world, I will never give in to terrorists who infiltrate our ranks to try and spread the message that islam is ok, it is NOT, its sick and backwards, its only a matter of time until Britain becomes like Northern Ireland, we will rid the country of those who are agaisnt us

  128. Chris

    17th April, 2009 at 3:28 pm

    Why not convert the Cathedral – at least it would then be used by people who actually believe in God and not by people who only go there to be seen.

  129. o'cearbhall

    17th April, 2009 at 7:32 pm

    oh dear Chris, I think there’s a bit of embitterment there that your not telling.

  130. Chris

    17th April, 2009 at 10:16 pm

    News for “o’cearbhall ” – Queen Vicctoria’s dead, we don’t have an empire any more and Lichfield is no lomger a Middle Class 1950’s theme park !

  131. o'cearbhall

    18th April, 2009 at 1:11 pm

    Oh dear dear Chris, ditto to my last post. In addition, I wasn’t around in the 50’s, Queen Victoria’s dead, was that a Smiths album? I’ll have to check my vinyl, It’s good to talk I have plenty of empathy if you want to share your anger. Ooops the st george flag as just slipped down from my window.

  132. Gastank

    18th April, 2009 at 8:59 pm

    Living in Walsall I have seen first hand the Islamification of certain parts of the town and all the resultant problems. The nice thing about coming to Lichfield is that you still feel that you are in your own country, as opposed to being an unwelcome stranger in your own neighbourhood.

    From my experiences whether permission is granted to make a call to prayer or not is irrelevant, because often it gets ignored anyway. Only the other Sunday we were treated to 3 hours of wailing interspersed with Ala Akbar. Whilst you see children and teenagers leaving Mosques after studying with what can only be described as a look of hatred towards white people on their faces. Remember the Government claims that 50% of Mosques in the UK favour Islamic extremism.

    I am sorry if this offends people but if they don’t believe it go to Caldmore, Pleck, Alumwell or Birchills and make your own judgements as to integration and community cohesion.

  133. Mr lol

    21st April, 2009 at 8:25 pm

    Well i dont think that it would fit in to lichfield becuase there isnt that much room for something that size to be built, it would have to have lots of room and i jsut dont know where it would be build .

    I didnt think there was a big enough asian communite in Lichfield to make it worth wild being built

  134. Matt

    21st April, 2009 at 10:37 pm

    Ok. This is an extremely long rant, so don’t read if you don’t fancy it. It’s your choice right? Just stay with me if you do.
    Forgive me if this makes me sound selfish and ignorant.. but what I can’t understand, is why, with virtually every disagreement over Islam, whether it be the building of a mosque, or an Islamic protest against British soldiers, it’s only seen as ‘racist’ or discriminatory when christians or other non-muslims are against the Islamic point of view. ‘Butcher’/ ‘Behead’/ ‘Slaughter’ those who mock Islam’ … Any christian protest with signs like that would either be banned beforehand or cause uproar! But if it goes with Islam, it’s ok right?

    People are saying.. we’re a multicultural society and therefore we must learn to respect one another’s beliefs and culture.. But once again, it’s the Islamic culture that’s supposedly the one under attack here. Once again, it’s the ‘traditional’ English culture that has to appreciate that of the Islamic people. And once again, we are in the wrong, when we attempt to preserve what little remains of old, English England. Yes, we’re in the twenty-first century and yes, we are a multicultural nation, but that doesn’t mean everything that England used to be should be swept away and forgotten. Our yesterday defines who we are today and influences who we will be tomorrow, no? If we ignore our history, and allow our culture to slip away from us, who do we become? What does that make us? Nothing. We just become a blur, with no real identity. Nothing to say ‘Oh! How British!’ about… Nothing to make us stand out from the crowd. Without our past we are not English.. we are not British… We are not European. We’re just people. So is it really wrong to want to preserve the little remaining physical culture we have left? Does that make you backward, or a racist, an anti-modernist, an Imperialist? If so, then sorry, but I’m guilty.
    I want to make it clear that I’m not blaming other races or religions or cultures for this decline. Modernisation, redevelopment and reconstruction are all necessary.. and I’m NOT saying that these are bad things either. Skyscrapers are cool (H) =P
    But I am saying places like York… Oxford… Bath.. Central London…. Lichfield… All with some beautiful English heritage and architecture, ought to be preserved. Even the United Nations, representing the vast majority of world governments, agrees in preserving places of great historical/ cultural/ natural importance, through UNESCO, so what’s wrong with doing so?
    And for those who suggest the idea of building regulation is intolerant, backward and wrong… French I know… But look at Paris. One of the most beautiful cities in the world architecturally and instantly recognisable as French… Only because Parisian building is strictly regulated to keep the city that way, to maintain it’s culture, history and beauty. In such a cultured yet liberal country as France, a country in which people actually stand up for what they believe in, building controls are welcomed. Why not here? What is so wrong about that? It’s just respectful to native culture. That’s not to say that other cultures and architecture may not influence or be a direct part of the future of ‘New’ Britain and of it’s modern culture, but it does mean that these ‘new’ concepts should not replace or diminish the existing ones, which are slowly corroding away. Yes, we must be tolerant. But so must everyone else be of us.
    I’m all for integration… but i think the word is being misused. If by integrate, people mean building separate graveyards for different people, living in race/ religion-defined areas and shopping at religion/ race-defined stores, just within the same cities, then ok, it’s being used correctly. Look at Walsall… Birmingham… London… Some minorities live as cities within cities, states within a state. Muslim protests against Christianity.. against the British Armed forces (supposedly their own, if they class themselves as British)… Banners that threaten Islam world domination and say ‘God Curse The Queen’… In my book, that doesn’t sound very integrated to me. Nor does it sound very ‘tolerant’ or respectful of British culture either. And with an attitude like that, how can anyone hope for successful integration? Either both sides must be tolerant of the other, or neither will be.
    It’s all good and well saying ‘we’ have to accept ‘them’ (purposely generalising), but ‘they’ have to accept ‘us’ too! Perhaps one day, when the world becomes a nice big happy utopia, everyone will get along, but in order to make that happen, people have to meet each other half way. It’s not all down to ‘us’ to be tolerant of ‘them’ and vice versa. ‘We’ allow mosques to be built in our big cities… ‘we’ allow them to freely practice ‘their’ religion.. but ‘they’ should respect our differences and meet us half way. Anyone that wants to live in England should learn English at the very least. It would be expected of you to learn the native language in any other country on earth. Not only is it polite, it’s necessary. If we were truly integrated, it would not be ‘us’ and ‘them’… it would be ‘we’.

    Finally… I know this is unbelievably long-winded, and that if you’ve been bothered to read this far you’re probably bored out of your skull… but thank you =)

    The one thing that bugs me most about this, is how the voice of the majority is often ignored by the government, in favour of the minority… just to ‘keep things calm’ or ‘prevent any trouble’. Political correctness – who actually agrees with that? And yet we allow ourselves and our opinions- (And i know I’m starting to sound like an anarchist raving about some big government conspiracy) – to be censored and suppressed, as to keep the calm. We’re supposed to be a democracy, and yet people are punished for speaking freely or for even using words they didn’t even know were offensive, under laws that NOBODY AGREES WITH!! Bah Bah Rainbow sheep? Are you for real?! By saying ‘black’ in a sentence, you’re suddenly being racist or offensive?! ‘Nitty Gritty’ can’t be used because it dates back to the age of slavery… Doesn’t every single word in the english language date back to some period of history in which others were being persecuted?!? And just because it may have been offensive back then, does that mean it can’t be used now?! In Britain, we have speech police. Whereas… Freedom of speech –noun- the right of people to express their opinions publicly without governmental interference, subject to the laws against libel, incitement to violence or rebellion. So if i call someone a teapot, and that by some obscene connection, was once used as an offensive Victorian nickname for some far out tribe in the South Pacific, does that mean I’m racist? Obviously I’m inciting violence or rebellion. I must be surely. Why else would i be charged?

    A little off the point, but hey! Anyway… I perhaps understand why these laws are passed.. for the prevention of civil unrest and for the safety of citizens… but i don’t understand HOW the government can pass laws that very few people support. It was the same with the Brand- Ross dispute. In a nation of over 60 million.. what was it? 200 or so complaints that lead to the BBC’s action? The tax-funded BBC, supposedly representing the people. The government is far too scared of offending anyone these days, and so neglect the common-view for that of the offended few. It’s a suppression of the majority, by the minority. (Now I’m sounding very Conspiracy-like)

    In this instance, in Lichfield… a city of what?… 30,000 people.. and already over 5000 of them have joined the anti-mosque Facebook group. If 200 is enough to
    represent over 300,000 times that amount, how is 5000 not enough to represent just 6 times as many people? A democracy – ‘Majority rule’. And as of yet, I’d say that’s pretty much the majority. When is the government going to listen?

    Sorry for the essay… but thanks for taking the time to read. Feel free to question any of the points I’ve made. I don’t mind trying to justify my beliefs. Whether you agree or not is up to you. =)

  135. sheraz

    22nd April, 2009 at 4:37 pm

    it doesn’t bother any1 there z nothing wrong with it to build a mosque. for every ones information i wanna let u know that it is quiet legal in Muslims religion(ISLAM) to respect Christianity, Jewish and whatever religion it is. they can build their churches in Muslims land. ISLAM doesn’t only tells to respect other religions but it also says to punish those who are harassing or bothering minority in Muslims land

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  137. boley roley

    24th April, 2009 at 4:02 pm

    hope the BNP take a seat in Lichfield,the other parties are out of touch..fiddle fidlle etc

  138. Burntwood Resident

    24th April, 2009 at 4:54 pm

    We should not let such a stupid concept such as religion govern such a controvesial plan as this.
    This has nothing to do with religion, but with the ability to take a poke at our government and its many cash filled loop holes.
    How long before this community is turned into another racially motivated hate community. It WILL happen no matter how much you say it “shouldn’t”

    You dont see the chinese setting up buddist temples do you ?? and there are plenty of chinese and asians in and around lichfield, why does no one bother them ? cuz they dont cause a fuss like muslims do.

    Before long they (muslims)are going to want to start up the old market square in lichfield with all their tatty low rate textiles.

    You really think the mental attitude of society is going to allow such an idea ?
    All those WHITE hoodies and chavs with their bottles of cider are going to leave this place alone IF it is built ? Its going to be just another excuse for them to wreak havoc… why? Just because some (wealthy?) businessman is throwing money at government officials cash for honours anyone ???

    There is no other need for this eyesore and obsenity to even be given a second thought.
    people have already stated that there are much more needed things in lichfield like a proper shopping centre and the so called cineplex and bowling alley that was supposed to of been completed in burntwood about 4 or 5 years ago ??? anyone know what happened to that ?

    Feed some money back into these small dying businesses that are suffering from this so called ressession, surely creating jobs and work for people in this area is more beneficial than constructing something that is obviously a very heated topic
    Markets and festivals brought to lichfield by this “faith” does not mean jobs it means more profit for them to gain a stronger foothold in the community.

    Back us into a corner and we SHALL come out fighting

  139. Burntwood Resident

    24th April, 2009 at 4:56 pm

    @Vote -1 Vote +1sheraz says:

    it doesn’t bother any1 there z nothing wrong with it to build a mosque. for every ones information i wanna let u know that it is quiet legal in Muslims religion(ISLAM) to respect Christianity, Jewish and whatever religion it is. they can build their churches in Muslims land. ISLAM doesn’t only tells to respect other religions but it also says to punish those who are harassing or bothering minority in Muslims land

    1) it isnt MUSLIM land
    2) your quite right about then tollerating and respecting other faiths – BUT ! actions speak louder than words.

  140. RH

    24th April, 2009 at 7:22 pm

    If they build this mosque in Lichfield it will soon become a highly muslim populated city, look at West Brom and other similar cities for instance! NOT very nice places any more. Maybe eventually it could even attract or help terrorism of some sort!. Anyway no doubt racism will be the issue in order to get this mosque.

  141. foxy

    24th April, 2009 at 7:59 pm

    I would no sooner like to see a cathedral built next to the Taj Mahal as I would a mosque in a cathedral city (lichfield) – why would anyone? I hardly see any muslims in Lichfield to warrant such a huge project…… I therefore can’t see what all the fuss is about really – if this did happen it would ruin the very essence of what Lichfield stands for and I for one would be moving somewhere else!

  142. lfc

    25th April, 2009 at 12:33 am

    no they ain’t true english people u sap i’m with u lindsey how bout ur real name soap in ur eyes.as for matt gibson how bout u shovel wat ur saying it’s idiots like u that make the country how it is.SOFT!!!!!!! I see how we all turned into RASISTS AGAIN for opening our mouths, I’m sick of the way poper ENGLISH people ar treated in this country call this a great nation not any more too many spineless people living here.

    From pre teen xxxxx

  143. David

    2nd May, 2009 at 12:24 pm

    It’s one thing being tolerant, it’s another to allow your country and culture to be taken away from you bit by bit. This is not racism, it’s about being proud of your identity and respecting your history. People have died for me to live in this country with certain freedoms and a ‘way of life’ . I feel it disrespectful if I just forget that and allow ‘Englishness’ to be bulldozed away.
    One sure fire way of creating true racism is to try to force things on a people.

  144. weeble

    2nd May, 2009 at 4:00 pm

    Look lets get things in to perspective here.

    1.We as a collective vote for the people we want to represent us and make the decisions that have led to the UK being a multi faith/cultural society.
    2. Everyone has different views on this subject. This is a good thing , and also why there are different views on religion and different faiths.
    3. How many of the people on this thread actually regularly attend any church , This does not include the football or the shopping Mall.
    3. how come a mosque is not in keeping with lichfields architecture , yet the new cathedral aka Tesco’s is fine ?
    4.Why are there so many lemmings who cannot make their own minds up and not follow the loudest barrels or the press.
    5. lets not forget that we have been multi cultural since the romans & the french came to visit.

    move on , calm down , life is too short.

  145. bob

    17th May, 2009 at 12:18 am

    phil

    Samuel Johnson Community Hospital, so you think a free health service made avaleble to local people is bad, how ever a muslim place of worship for the minorty is beter????

  146. dicko

    19th May, 2009 at 6:19 pm

    no more baltis for me nor shall i use eastern eye,, what we need in this country is a new leader,,

    would winston churchill in his time allow outside influance to dictate our way of life… i think not……

  147. Andrew Fox

    19th May, 2009 at 7:05 pm

    Ha ha at you ‘fight the fight’.
    The war won in 1945 was fighting a rather fascist bunch known as ‘The Nazis’.
    The Nazis had strange ideas based upon race and religions and marched across europe killing anybody in thier path.
    Many people died fighting Rascist Nazis – not to make sure britain stayed british.
    If the local islams attending our new mosque have terrorist links – i will be weary of my curry exploding.
    A problem i have not had in over 15 years of my very pleasant experiences with these gentlemen.

  148. matt green

    5th July, 2009 at 8:34 pm

    ewwwwwwwww!

  149. Kevin Elsmore

    12th July, 2009 at 11:42 am

    No Mosque ever in Lichfield

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  151. Rebecca

    27th July, 2009 at 1:20 am

    Where do I go online to sign the petition against the Mosque please?

  152. Alex

    1st August, 2009 at 11:22 pm

    In the middle east, Christian places of worship are tolerated, but are not allowed to preach publicly. That is to say, bibles are not allowed to be distributed, and Church bells may not be rang. So why not the same here in Lichfield? This is a primarily Christian nation, so it should only be fair that the Mosque be given permission to go ahead, but with no PA system. As mentioned in earlier comments, Mosques may be built to an architectural standard, and not just in a Middle-Eastern fashion. Churches do not all have to have spires and bells… Let’s have some tolerance here, Lichfield and it’s xenophobic MP does not have to live in the past, whatever a small (but vocal) minority say!

  153. Annee Fenton

    2nd August, 2009 at 4:54 pm

    Living in Lichfield this is the last thing wanted here. This is a Christian Country. For those who do not like this – you can always go to, and live somewere else (asap)

  154. Anthony Barrow

    9th August, 2009 at 12:55 pm

    Does Lichfield really need a mosque ? I don’t think the city needs a mosque or the B N P , either of these two will cause unnecessary racial problems which we don’t want either , I think the local asian business man needs to re-think , maybe the way to get him to think again is to boycott ALL ASIAN business’s . True Lich

  155. Anthony Barrow

    9th August, 2009 at 1:07 pm

    Last Sunday, Mr Salam led a group of city Muslims at an ‘absolutely successful’ meeting at the Raj Duth restaurant to try to move the mosque plan forward.

    The group also wants to see a separate Muslim graveyard established in the city. .. This man also stated he wanted to keep lichfield as it is !!! I say boycott the eastern eye and any business he is concerned with and MAYBE yes MAYBE he and his faminly will go away , why would this man want to change a city that has been so good to him , LEAVE LICHFIELD AS IT IS , if the muslim community value their faith’s and culture’s so much why aren’t they living amongst it instead of here ?? suugest boycotting the ” raj ruth ” also .. lets go the whole hog and boycott em all.

  156. o'cearbhaill

    9th August, 2009 at 1:52 pm

    Take a look in last weeks mercury if anyone as still got it; page 3; Salam and friends attending Friday prayer outside because the community centre where he normally holds it is closed for a few weeks. Count the ” worshipers” , plus a motorbike in the background. I thought he’d been rambling on about hundreds of worshipers in Lichfield. I think I counted 10. Another publicity stunt on behalf of our friend. I agree I’d never use his restaurant or products ever. As regards to interfaith tolerance and the like have a look at what happened in Birmingham City Centre yesterday; http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1205263 a religion of peace anyone?

  157. Kevin Elsmore

    9th August, 2009 at 5:51 pm

    Mosque in Lichfield, i have recently lived near a Mosque, your roads will become blocked, parking in your front of your house or drive, its noisy, do you really want this in Lichfield – no, their are plenty of Mosques in Walsall or Birmingham for them to visit. DO NOT LET THIS HAPPEN IN LICHFIELD, NOW OR EVER

  158. Unconcerned Citizen

    9th August, 2009 at 10:58 pm

    I think this situation is Mr Saleem being publicity hungry.
    I’m sure a man who runs a restaurant and employs many staff would have the ability to find a suitable building if he tried.
    If he wants a dedicated mosque he’ll have to pay for it – tax payers don’t do religion.
    Talk of boycotting all asian businesses is quite silly.
    Would you refuse treatment from an asian surgeon?
    Course not. So shut up.

  159. Tax Payer

    10th August, 2009 at 1:52 am

    Quote “Would you refuse treatment from an asian surgeon?” End quote.

    You may be prepared to receive any treatment by anyone but some of us do think for our self.
    Incidentally if you do find the guts to say no you will find your word is accepted without question.
    Would you buy a car from a source you were not happy with?

  160. Unconcerned Citizen

    10th August, 2009 at 10:01 am

    Thats a fair enough comment ‘Tax Payer’.
    I wouldn’t buy a car from a source i’m not happy with.
    Of course i think people have every right to refuse treatment from an Asian surgeon but in actuality if their life depended on the treatment i doubt most would refuse the treatment. Many racists have changed their veiws after life saving surgery from asian doctors (who are amongst the backbone of the NHS).
    Also – not all asians are muslims anyway. Suggestions of boycotting all asian shops is obviously a racist knee jerk reaction to a publicity hungry restaurant owner who happens to be asian and muslim.

    Quote “You may be prepared to receive any treatment by anyone but some of us do think for our self” end quote.
    Im not sure suggestions of a mass boycott of asian services is indicative of people thinking for themselves. It is indicative of very little thought at all.

  161. Anthony Barrow

    10th August, 2009 at 6:11 pm

    re.Unconcerned Citizen , you maybe be unconcerned but the rest of us are VERY CONCERNED , you dont give your name , is this an indication that you are asian and do you live in Lichfield ? re. asian surgeons are their any at our Lichfield hospitals ?

  162. Tax Payer

    11th August, 2009 at 12:28 am

    Quote” re. asian surgeons are their any at our Lichfield hospitals ? end Quote

    Do we have a real hospital?
    If we do i have yet to find it!Those who think that new place by ALDI is useful for anything except one or two items should think again.

  163. Tax Payer

    11th August, 2009 at 12:55 am

    Quote”Im not sure suggestions of a mass boycott of asian services is indicative of people thinking for themselves. It is indicative of very little thought at all. “End quote. Have you never seen how a trade union works?Some one may offer you a suggestion or petition etc – it is up to the individual to decide what to do.However I do agree when the plebs were told to vote “L” last time they did as told with no thought at all.

  164. Anthony Barrow

    11th August, 2009 at 6:54 pm

    Piece from the Express and Star ( thanks to Adam ) Tues. 11th August
    Staffordshire County Council is selling the small Stowe Teaching Unit in Stowe Street, and the city’s Muslim Community Association has confirmed that it will be making an offer. Association member Abdul Salam, aged 50, told the Express & Star: “We have been to view the building and we are planning to make an offer to buy it. It’s in a lovely spot.”
    In the past motorists used the drive to get to the building before and after school, but elderly residents fear that when the building is taken over it will see a massive increase in traffic using the tiny cul-de-sac.
    Mr Salam said: “I do have sympathy with the residents but we wouldn’t create any problems. It would simply be polite and respectful people visiting the building to pray. A quote also used by several muslims in the past .
    “There wouldn’t be any loud music like there might be if it was turned into young people’s apartments. We’re not talking about putting a disco in there.” Salam also said previously that they may get up to a 1000 visiting the mosque , hope Lichfield planning authority take note as 1000 would arrive in many cars , and are their any facilities for this amount of cars in this area???
    Mr Salam, who has lived in London and Gloucester, describes Lichfield as ‘one of the classic towns left’ . Another quote by salam re Lichfield
    “I would like to keep this exactly the same,” he said
    Then goes on to say “We are not a big community but we are a fast-growing community and it is of great concern to us.
    “People are attracted to Lichfield, it is a nice place to live and more people are moving here.”
    At present, Lichfield’s Muslim men carry out their five times daily prayers at a hired room in Curborough Community Centre.

    But Mr Salam, who established the Eastern Eye restaurant in Bird Street, said that the Islamic community in Lichfield needed a place to worship. But fails to say that they knew before they moved here that their was no mosque in Lichfield.
    He said Muslims in the city had to travel to Birmingham or Burton to visit a mosque.
    Finally the Jewish community have never requested a synagogue but travel to different areas to pray so why cant these people do the same .

  165. Kevin Elsmore

    11th August, 2009 at 7:32 pm

    To all against a Mosque in Lichfield. Its ok for all of us keep chatting on the Lichfield blog, but what are we actually going to do about stopping this once and for all !!! are we sending letters to the council, lobby our MP, demonstrations, petitions, ask for help from the BNP on how to go about it, etc etc etc this includes me also, lets make no bones about it – the people who want a Mosque are doing evrything they can to get it – what are we doing – moaning about it wont get the result we all want, Someone needs to take charge and leed and fight this battle.

  166. o'cearbhaill

    12th August, 2009 at 12:02 am

    Kevin, I’ve been thinking the same thing. It’s not enough to bang off an email or sit pontificating in the pub or moaning to your friends or even writing to your MP. I think the press would have a field day if the BNP were involved. I can just see the headlines now: ” racists march to stop mosque ” , or something else like that.It’s got to come from the people of Lichfield. If we organised a proper paper petition of names etc, would people sign it or would they be worried that they’d be branded as racists. I’m giving this lot’s of thought and will be back. We need numbers, I mean thousands of names on a petition to be handed into the council with the press taking photo’s.The petition would have to be legal with valid reasons why we want it stopped. I really do think though that the racist card will come up or the other buzzwords : intolerant, anti muslim, or heaven help us “fascists”. Salam as already been courting the press about “intolerance” back when this first reared it’s head.

  167. Unconcerned Citizen

    12th August, 2009 at 6:37 am

    A few quick replies – Anthony -plenty of people on here withold thier identity. For many different, occasioanaly valid reasons.
    Tax payer – i’m aware of how trade unions work and i am simply putting forward another argument in my debate. My answer to your ‘capable of indiviual thought’ was relevant. These comments are individual thought? can i have a copy of the hymm sheet please.

    O’cearbaill – interesting ideas you have. I think you are correct that you will be branded rascist. After all – you say your petition will need to be valid for legal reasons.
    (i assume you mean objecting to the mosque for reasons such as planning issues rather than because you don’t like asians or islamics).
    As you currently don’t have a planning appplication to object to – any real reasons you have for objecting to the mosque won’t be legal and are may appear to be racist to the casual observer.
    Unless the mosques application is for an unsuitable location i don’t think you’ll get far.

  168. Anthony Barrow

    12th August, 2009 at 11:27 am

    Just look at the web site for Peter Davies newly elected Lord Mayor of Doncaster , maybe Lichfield could do with a Mayor like him !!! he seems to be giving the people of Doncaster what they want , with a Mayor like him our ratescould be be less . I see that he is a member of the English Democrat Party , this is being posted with a none political view . Re. the previous comments the race card will always be played BUT not in favour of the indigenous people of this country

  169. Tax Payer

    12th August, 2009 at 12:04 pm

    The only way the Muslims can win the proposed application,if at all, is by claiming race/religious bias and it seems to me the local Muslims are the ones who have started/caused more unrest than anyone else.Few even knew there are Muslims in Lichfield until he courted almost any paper that would report his wants.
    It has been stated a 1000 Muslims want to use the unit up to five times a day plus – “women are facing difficult times as they are unable to learn about the English culture and language”(his words not mine) “it is important these(“Muslim”) children should be kept on the right side of the law” (again his words).
    This is an industrial size application (5000 per day footfall plus women and children).
    Recently a small group ,just up the road ,stopped a supermarket using the road a few times a week – how then can the Muslims be allowed to use a unit with such a large expected influx of traffic.The roads around that area are already too congested for this type of industrial volume.Where do all these Muslims park?

    The unit is surrounded on four sides by roads and a small lane intersecting the area.
    It needs a few people from each road to obtain a signature from every one who lives in that area .
    Obviously if the Muslims try to do the same and they get a majority their case will be strengthened.

  170. Unconcerned Citizen

    12th August, 2009 at 12:38 pm

    I’d agree with most that Abdul (creator of the worlds biggest curry) is perhaps not shy to a little publicity.
    I don’t think this should be held against muslims. After all, they are all capable of individual thought.

    I have read comments regarding the usage levels of the mosque.
    Some here have claimed there are only 10 muslims – so a mosque is not needed.
    Some here have projected 5000 vists per day – so its too busy and should be refused.

    The muslims mentioning a mosque haven’t caused any unrest as far as i am aware.

  171. Stuart Harrison

    12th August, 2009 at 2:16 pm

    @ Anthony Barrow – This Peter Davies?

    http://andys.org.uk/b/2009/06/08/a-whole-lot-of-nothing/

  172. Tax Payer

    12th August, 2009 at 3:10 pm

    Quote”Eastern Eye owner Abdul Salam told the Birmingham Post he was “frightened” by remarks ” End quote If he is now “frightened” when he was not before i think we can call that “unrest” but we can play with symantics if you wish..

    You brought up a curry (sorry about that) – who paid to clean up the mess?
    Abdul mentioned Quote”At present, the 1,000 strong muslim community, who pray up to five times a day, “End Quote.His figs not mine.1000 times 5 equals 5000 per day plus all their wives (more than one each? and numerous kids per fam.He is the Muslims spokesman – he speaks for them.Quote”Abdul Salam, spokesman for the Muslim Community in the Lichfield District”End quote

  173. Kevin Elsmore

    12th August, 2009 at 9:47 pm

    Do we really care if we are branded racists if thats what people want to call it !!
    as long as we stop this mosque i dont really care. Lets get the petition going, i assure you thats thousands will sign it.

  174. Unconcerned Citizen

    12th August, 2009 at 9:53 pm

    The comments that frightened Abdul have resulted in the rare occurence of the facebook forum being closed. Facebook is against censorship but some of the comments were beyond inciting racial hatred and suggested things such as Arson which we know could end up costing lives.

    After tasting Abduls biggest curry in the park (which was ruined by health officials not allowing chicken) i would also take any of Abduls facts and figures with a pinch of salt. Just like some of the ‘facts and figures’ that people here seem to have invented to justify themselves.

    http://www.rtpi.org.uk/download/361/P-Dealing-with-Racist-Representations.pdf

    The above link is the guideline that our planning authorities will be using when reading any objections to the mosque.
    I don’t think anything should go in an unsuitable place – but i disagree with many peoples view that the entire of lichfield is unsuitable for a mosque. The cathedral is here due to geography (roads, population etc). Another religions presence has always only been a metter of time.

    A lot of concerns about the mosque such as traffic, additional visitors, incompatibility with peoples views etc are already here with the cathedral and christianity.

    1000 people 5 times a day would need to be quite a large building with a large fire limit (number of people allowed in). I belive Lloyds/Gatehouse pub has a fire limit of 450 to give an idea of the building size required. This could rule out the school that has been mentioned.
    Unless a planning application in lichfield is good for business/tourism, the planning rules here are strictly adhered to for the most trivial reasons.

  175. Anthony Barrow

    12th August, 2009 at 11:55 pm

    Stuart no this Peter Davies that you can listen to NOT IN PRINTED SCRIPT BUT INTERVIEW FROM THE BBCMayor Watch: Peter Davies on BBC Look North at the top of the page you directed me to !!! Re. Kevin and all others I agree there is no space for a mosque ANYWHERE in Lichfield , if the council don’t listen then lets get them out !! I can recall asking a junior member of this council some years ago where will these people want to put a mosque I was told ” that is irrelevant ” I will end by saying how many of these councillers who will eventually be pro mosque come from Lichfield , and how many will be here when Lichfield ends up in the sorry state that all the other cities & towns end up in where these mosques are erected free of rates etc. I think that we should al LOBBY our M Ps to see what is happening , if we dont get answers then keep on pestering them ” chip away just like the muslims do ” they will have answer in the end .

  176. Kevin Elsmore

    13th August, 2009 at 7:55 pm

    Well said Anthony Barrow – Lichfield people against the mosque – lobby your MP now, today, tomorrow, next week, next month – keep on until we win. Come on lets really see what we are made of – I hope true British grit.

  177. M Robinson

    14th August, 2009 at 1:00 am

    8,350 people have joined the group against the Mosque, I dont see how the council can ignore the masses to satisfy a few. What happened to freedom of speech??

  178. Unconcerned Citizen

    14th August, 2009 at 8:39 am

    8350 people have joined that group – some people joined it simply as they were concerned it may not be suitable for the propsed location (conservation area – sugestions it would have domes and minnarettes etc).

    Just because a lot of people want to do something – it doesn’t mean its right. A large number of that group aren’t even from staffordshire let alone the lichfield district.

    Nobody has taken away anybodies Free speech – this mosque debate seems to be freely debatable.
    People have used this issue to incite racial hatred (suggestions of arson etc) Nothing has been done about them so its fair to say nobodys freedom of speech has been affected.

  179. Anthony Barrow

    17th August, 2009 at 7:16 pm

    Well Unconcerned CITIZEN ?? I would repeat myself and say that you are an asian muslim , but to get to the point we the people of Lichfield dont wish to change our ways , we dont want our children to be taught the muslim way of life , we are all very happy with the way things have been here for a very long time , I would suggest that if you are in favour of the muslim way of life and want to live close to a mosque THEN move to an area that already has them . When a lot of people want to do something then that’s their right to say so , and they feel that it is right you are a minority who we don’t want to become a majority as you have in to many of our cities , also how do you know that at lot of these people are not from the are ? their may be a possibility that 1-2% are outsiders but surely they are allowed to voice their opinions .

  180. Unconcerned Citizen

    17th August, 2009 at 10:48 pm

    I’m not an asian muslim – and i’ll thank you for not speaking upon my behalf again.
    You’re not the people of lichfield and not their spokesperson.

    I don’t deny you your right of opinion nor anybody else – but i therefore have every right to state mine (which tends to be more factual)

    Majority rule is no sensible nor morally justifiable method of desicion making.
    “My gangs bigger than your gang so you must live your life like us” – what a lot of tosh.
    This seems more like Mob rule.
    And mob rule has no right to decide upon the growth rate of a minority group. ( i must point out that they are in large numbers in cities due to social housing multicultural policies and historical economics).

    No muslim has knocked my door telling me how to live my life (unlike our disindidgeounous christian religion)

    You are the one who is trying to affect how people can and can’t live their life – you should be in a cell with that Hook Handed Hamza – you might have some common ground.

  181. o'cearbhaill

    17th August, 2009 at 11:46 pm

    Now, now ; Gentlemen, please.

  182. Tax Payer

    18th August, 2009 at 12:56 am

    Quote”Majority rule is no sensible nor morally justifiable method of desicion making.”end of quote. Are you saying you do not agree with our form of deciding if a person is innocent or guilty ( a jury)?
    If one person says we should hang him/her/other high is that enough to put a rope round the neck? Quote “My gangs bigger than your gang so you must live your life like us” – what a lot of tosh.End of quote.
    Is that not exactly what we are doing in Iraq etc – imposing a way of life on others and is that not what Muslims do to women and children?

  183. Unconcerned Citizen

    18th August, 2009 at 8:32 am

    Tax payer – regarding jury service – i said nothing of the sort. Jury service and majority rule may bear a resemblemance to each other – but 12 randomly selected people judging a crime certainly is a very different kettle of fish to mob or majority rule. (You perhaps are confusing the term ‘majority verdict’ it is certainly fairer than being judged by an employee of the crown prosecution service who wears a silly wig to assert authority .)

    I don’t agree with what we have done in iraq – however the war in iraq seemed to be some sort of unjustified oppression.
    I doubt there were any weapons of mass destruction – after the event trying to justify this by pointing out how they oppress women and children seems to be a sore point as we carpet bombed them.
    Certain middle east countries are not as advanced socially as the U.K (no pun intended). I would agree that nobody should have a way of life imposed upon them if they do not wish it.
    Many religions and people are guilty of this – not just islam.

  184. Soap Distant

    18th August, 2009 at 9:13 am

    The stench of conspiracy in here is unbelievable. No planning application has been received for this mosque, and, even if it is put forward it will be subject to the same planning laws as any other development. There is no great ‘liberal conspiracy’ here.

    I’d like to stick my oar in further but Unconcerned Citizen seems to be doing the job just fine.

  185. Soap Distant

    18th August, 2009 at 9:45 am

    By the way, if you want to find out when an application REALLY has been made, rather than just assuming then go to http://www.planningalerts.com and enter your details. You’ll then get an email every time a planning application is made in your area – you will then be able to register your objections when the application is made, but bear in mind “I don’t like muslims” isn’t a valid reason

  186. gastank

    18th August, 2009 at 3:59 pm

    Quote “( I must point out that they are in large numbers in cities due to social housing multicultural policies and historical economics)” end quote. What has social housing got to do with it? Muslim areas tend to be largely all private housing of a terraced nature. If the local authorities determined things the Muslim community would be dispersed, as and when each individual social housing property became available, instead of congregating together to create Muslim areas by choice.

    Quote “No Muslim has knocked my door telling me how to live my life (unlike our disindidgeounous Christian religion”. Why would Muslims knock on your door if you don’t live in a Muslim area. I know people who have had the door knocked and have been asked “when are they going to move because this is a Muslim area now”

    Quote “Certain middle east countries are not as advanced socially as the U.K (no pun intended). I would agree that nobody should have a way of life imposed upon them if they do not wish it”. Exactly – when you have a community where the majority of people have problems with the rights of women, gay people, animal cruelty, denial/support of terrorism, criticism of their religion, the British legal system and clearly associate their identity/values more strongly with the values of their own country, or parents country of origin why should I welcome these values being imposed on an area? It is why I personally think multiculturalism has been such a dangerous failure, in that the state has deliberately cultivated differences and now it has a problem because people wish to go their own way. As a result of this the white community is now also starting to play the identity card itself.

  187. Tax Payer

    18th August, 2009 at 4:48 pm

    “Unconcerned Citizen ” I am sorry to labour the point but a “jury” is majority rule – a decision based on majority.Some cases as stated by the judge have to have unanimous decision but majority is used more and more these days.Even when a unanimous decision has been asked for if one or two stay away (sick) the majority make a decision.Our parliament runs the country on “majority” voting your Mp is decided the same.Your statement “Majority rule is no sensible nor morally justifiable method of decision making.” suggests you do not agree with most of the way our judiciary or government national/local is run.
    I agree mob rule is totally different for one thing it is not likely to be “majority”.

  188. Kevin Elsmore

    18th August, 2009 at 7:26 pm

    Come on people against a mosque, lets do something about it, demos, lobby MP, do it now not when its too late

  189. Anthony Barrow

    18th August, 2009 at 7:59 pm

    O K Kevin organize it and we’ll be there , your right lobby em make a nuisance of ourselves , that’s the way forward , not like some people did in south B’ham and threw pigs body parts in the offending proposed properties , that’s not right is it.

  190. Kevin Elsmore

    18th August, 2009 at 8:43 pm

    No pigs body parts for sure, if we do it we do it right, ok, enough chat , i need help to do this properly, i want opinions on how we shall go about it and what to do first, I want first to see how much support we have on this site, those all against the mosque i would like you to email me: kevinelsmore@btinternet.com please give me your comments on what we do first and i will arrange it, Mr opinion is – we all need to lobby Michael Fabricant, i need address where we can send letters to him, i need a good letter writer for this to create a template, i think then we need to set up a campaign and obtain 1000s of signatures from the people of Lichfield – maybe set up a stall in the city centre, thats some ideas from me, now lets have yours – e mail me please. together we WILL stop this mosque but we ALL must be comitted to this just cause. ALL – DONT ThINK ABOUT IT – DO SOMETHING ABOUT – COME ON LETS SEE WHAT WE ARE MADE OFF. Thanks

  191. Unconcerned Citizen

    18th August, 2009 at 10:07 pm

    As SoapDistant has pointed out.. http://www.planningalerts.com will save you wasting your time until a planning application is submitted. Soap Distants oar is more than welcome. In the meantime opponents to a fictional planning applictaion may appear to have other adgendas besides being concern about a planning apllication.

    Tax Payer –
    The sort of ‘majority rule’ people have been talking of here, is more comparable to ‘kangaroo courts’ rather than our slightly flawed ‘democracy’ or ‘H.M courts’.

    Also i don’t agree with how our judiciary/government national/local is run. I need not go into to much depth – im sure many here will agree that it is open to corruption and certainly suffers cronyism.
    I think it is relevant to mention 78% of lichfields electorate did not vote for the local government. (60% did not even turn up to vote).
    That is not indicative of majority rule – nor is it indicative of a system that is held in a very high esteem by the 60% of the electorate that did not wish to vote for any of them (politicians/councillors)
    The a large proportion of those who do turn up are pensioners – from an age when politicians were perhaps slightly less corrupt than they are now. (also they feel oblidged due to ww2). Things have changed since they were a lad – we have entered the age of Neo liberalism and i’ve heard rumours that neoliberalism has fallen upon its bottom recently.

    But most importantly – i think its a good time to point out that it is the politicians that have allowed the large number of immigrants into the U.K (whilst we have a housing and job shortage) and they have also caused (perhaps intentionally – shock horror) a large degree of racial tensions in the U.K.

    So yeah – i think the system is pretty poor really – yet many here supporting these methods are blaming the symptoms (immigrants) rather than the cause (democratic system, politicians, capitalism etc etc).

    Its a bit like taking two paracetamol when you are suffering from flesh eating necrosis.

  192. Anthony Barrow

    21st August, 2009 at 8:36 am

    I think to start with just set up a stall and get more signatures but to save the expense get people armed with clipboards and paper to stand around the city and get signatures, posters would also be usefull , these could be put in local business’s asking people to
    sign up to the protest , and to stop using all Asian business’s , if the Asian community here in Lichfield is hit hard enough then maybe they will put pressure on this abdul , also strongly protest and get signatures outside his and his accomplice’s from the raj ruth business’s
    the other asian eating house that is involved . You can lobby the following

    The Chairman
    Lichfield Constituency Conservative Association
    28a Tamworth Street
    Lichfield
    Staffordshire
    WS13 6JJ
    or telephone Lichfield (01543) 417868

    Michael Fabricant M.P.
    House of Commons
    Westminster
    London
    SW1A 0AA also keep pestering the local council office’s

  193. Soap Distant

    21st August, 2009 at 11:44 am

    Just to confirm – exactly what is your problem with a mosque being built in Lichfield? It’s obvious that Mr Salaam’s grand plan of domes and minarets in a conservation area isn’t going to happen, so exactly what is the problem with Muslims having a place to worship in Lichfield?

    You seem to be against this regardless of where it is built, I can understand if plans had been submitted and there was a specific concern about parking or noise, but it just seems to be just good old fashioned bigotry.

  194. Tax Payer

    21st August, 2009 at 2:00 pm

    They already have a place that no one ,as far as i know,has complained about except him!
    Please tell me of one place where the area has got better since a “M” was built?Would you say B,Ham/Burton/ or some other place?

  195. Soap Distant

    21st August, 2009 at 2:22 pm

    Hmmm… And you can correlate the building of an “M” (as you call it) exactly with the downfall of an area? Give me a break.

    You anti-mosque lot just don’t like anything that’s different or ‘alien’ in your lovely WASP ghetto – it might not be racism, but it’s certainly intolerance and it’s symptomatic of the small minded, little Englander mindset that I see time and time again in Lichfield.

    Get off your high horses and move into the 21st century. Fortunately not everyone round here is like you lot.

  196. Tax payer

    21st August, 2009 at 3:48 pm

    Well at least we seem to be agreeing that B,ham/Burton have gone down – (downfall).
    Now all we need is for you to mention a couple of places that have improved.

  197. Soap Distant

    21st August, 2009 at 4:12 pm

    I didn’t say that. That’s what you inferred in your last comment. If Birmingham and Burton have gone downhill (which they haven’t, really) it’s more likely to be something to do with the decline of the manufacturing industry rather than the building of a mosque or mosques.

  198. Kevin Elsmore

    21st August, 2009 at 8:21 pm

    All against a mosque, here are 2 addresses to send your letters, do it today, tomorrow, every day The Chairman
    Lichfield Constituency Conservative Association
    28a Tamworth Street
    Lichfield
    Staffordshire
    WS13 6JJ
    or telephone Lichfield (01543) 417868

    Michael Fabricant M.P.
    House of Commons
    Westminster
    London
    SW1A 0AA

  199. Tax payer

    21st August, 2009 at 10:45 pm

    Quote -Soap -“If Birmingham and Burton have gone downhill (which they haven’t, really) it’s more likely to be something to do with the decline of the manufacturing industry rather than the building of a mosque or mosques. “End quote. If you really believe that B,ham/Burton have not gone down hill you must be very young ,or do not read the papers and know little history .
    On the other hand if you are used to living in an area which make parts of B,ham/Burton look good I think we have found where you and I differ. I think Lichfield and most of the Cotwolds (for example) are quite nice and not exactly known for heavy industry so your point does not stand up..

  200. Unconcerned Citizen

    22nd August, 2009 at 8:28 am

    The Facebook “against mosque being built in lichfield” groups discusion wall is running again.
    Also – classcrisis have posted there linking to their own forum regarding this subject. ( boycotting the eastern eye – free stickers ).
    As they are both proper ‘forums’ rather than a comments section of a newspaper – i think we could perhaps give the lichfield blog a break on this issue.
    Particularly as these comments here (lichfield blog) are moderated before they appear – i’d imagine the guy that has to do this moderating maybe have other responsibilities.

  201. Sammy J

    22nd August, 2009 at 8:58 am

    Just to clarify a few points there Unconcerned Citizen – the comments aren’t moderated before they appear. Certain posts will not appear because elements of them are picked up by the system and flagged up to be checked. Other posts may be – and have been – removed from topics such as this one where they not only go against the guidelines above the comment box but also the laws of the land!

    And also we’re not a newspaper – more an online Lichfield community space – something which allows discussions like the ones on this topic to take place with both sides having a voice.

  202. Anthony Barrow

    22nd August, 2009 at 9:33 am

    For an “unconcerned citizen ” he certainly has a lot to say pro mosque , is he in opposition to the eastern eye because he is also in the same business? what has it got to do with him where CONCERNED CITIZENS air their views , I’m glad he has now been advised that this blog is being run correctly and above board , their are plenty of other reasons why the people of Lichfield don’t want a mosque in Lichfield but these reasons may possibly not be published ( just look at the recent problems in Luton !)

  203. Soap Distant

    22nd August, 2009 at 12:45 pm

    No one seems to have answered my question though – what is the big deal with having a mosque in Lichfield? I’m genuinely interested…

  204. Tax payer

    22nd August, 2009 at 2:05 pm

    “Soap Distant” I think numerous people have answered your question.Perhaps it is you that is not consistent.
    You may recall I asked “Please tell me of one place where the area has got better since a “M” was built?Would you say B,Ham/Burton/ or some other place? ”
    No answer was forthcoming from you but plenty of sitting on the fence.

  205. Unconcerned Citizen

    22nd August, 2009 at 3:56 pm

    Regarding my comment about discussing this else where – i was only concerned as i thought all comments had to be moderated (i appreciate the legal ramifictaions). My only concern was excessively burdening a website.

    Answering Anthony – i was aware this board is being run correctly and above board and wasn’t attempting to imply otherwise, i’m more than happy posting here – but if its being a pain/inconveniance i’d rather be a pain/inconveniance to the people whom im opposing rather than the Lichfield Blog – but hey – lets start forums everywhere – thus watering down the opposition rather than uniting them.
    I’m not asian and don’t own a business in competition with the eastern eye.

    My concerns are against racially motivated opposition to the mosque. Also if the mosque is in an unsuitable location i would voice my concerns at that too.
    It’s quite clear that there is racially motivated opposition to the mosque.
    (religion, ethnicity etc are all legally under the umberella term of ‘race’ nowadays)
    I’m not denying anyone stating thier racist views but i will challenge them will an intelligent argument.

    Muslims aren’t all from one country, don’t all speak the same language, aren’t all asian and most aren’t extremist terrorist fundamentalists – and with the 4 year long social housing waiting list, i expect an asian ghetto in lichfield is a long way off .

    Racially motivated reasons or ‘concerns’ about a mosque can be printed/published if they are not worded in a manner to cause racial offence or incite racial hatred.

    Indeed – i have already explained why asians seem to ‘take over’ an area. This is (generally) government ‘multicultural’ housing policy and discrimination affecting income.
    (A ghetto is described as a “portion of a city in which members of a minority group live; especially because of social, legal, or economic pressure.”)

    Also i will answer the question “where has got better since a mosque has been built”.
    Fact of the matter is – a lot of places are going ‘downhill’ and its nothing to do with mosques.

  206. Lulu

    22nd August, 2009 at 7:25 pm

    Soap Distant: It is quite clear why there will not be a M in Lichfield – It does not fit the character of Lichfield, Roads blocked at prayer mat time, Congestion in the streets [ these people dont care where they leave their car ] i used to live near one !! parked in my drive, front of drive!! front of house, noise, we dont want ghettos in Lichfield, there are plenty of M`s in B-O-T, Walsall, B/Ham – they can go there or go back to there own place of origin to prey.

  207. Unconcerned Citizen

    22nd August, 2009 at 7:48 pm

    Lulu –
    The cathedral causes lots of congestion in beacon street and at ‘woolworths carpark’ at pew time. Im not sure your suggestion that ‘these people (muslims) don’t care where they leave their cars’ is true and again, take a drive around lichfields estates close to town – and its quite clear that many people don’t care where they leave their cars. I expect people who Live next to St Chads Church and St Peter and Pauls on Dimbles Hill get annoyed by the traffic on a sunday.

    We very much have a Ghetto in lichfield apart from it being a White Ghetto meaning it idoes not strictly meet the definition of ghetto. We certainly have economically deprived areas in lichfield.
    (the region inside eastern avenue, trent valley road and stafford road – a large chunk of lichfield is or was social housing).

    Why do you not have the same sentiment to christians ( a religion of middle east origin ).
    They rings bells as calls to prayer, congest streets, influence policies and also have extremists amongst them – aside from skin colour there seems little difference between them (in your description) and Muslims.

  208. Lulu

    22nd August, 2009 at 8:16 pm

    Unconcerned citizen or should we say Concerned citizen: Lets get one thing straight here, this is a Christian country, the cathedral has been in Lichfield alot longer than a muslim community has ! as i said i lived near a M in Walsall [ my statement is true about cars and drives being blocked and noise pollution, as for a white Getto [ the whole of England is a white getto ] if Muslems dont like it – LEAVE

  209. gastank

    22nd August, 2009 at 8:58 pm

    “Muslims aren’t all from one country, don’t all speak the same language, aren’t all Asian and most aren’t extremist terrorist fundamentalists – and”.

    Quite right only 50% of the Mosques in this country have been taken over by extremists according to the government and only 52% of Muslims say either that they would be proud of their family member being a suicide bomber, or alternatively think that acts of terrorism against this country are justified. Oh and just 25% think 9/11 and 7/7 never happened. Can’t really see what the problem is really.

    “with the 4 year long social housing waiting list, I expect an asian ghetto in lichfield is a long way off .”

    Why are you obsessed with Muslims only living in social housing? A bit of a racial stereo type that, poor hopeless Muslims can’t find/afford anywhere to live except in social housing – but fear not the right on left are here to help. Have you ever lived in a Muslim area. Perhaps you should get out of Lichfield and go and visit Pleck, Caldmore, Alumwell, Saltley, Small Heath etc and you might actually learn something about how the remaining and diminishing white minority feel. Most of the Muslim community in these areas are owner occupiers, who have been able to buy up property cheaply by colluding in various ways as a community to make the white community feel unwelcome, end result white flight. Hence their consternation following the 2005 tornado in Birmingham because the council would not fix privately owned homes that were not insured.

  210. Unconcerned Citizen

    22nd August, 2009 at 9:08 pm

    Lulu or should we say ‘loopy lu’ lets get one thing straight or corrected here, this is not a christian country.
    It is by census the majority religion (71.6%) but in the context of this conversation regarding building a mosque, Christian church attendance figures are rather low and in decline – therefore your argument gets weaker as every moment passes.
    I don’t think you or anyone will get into heaven just becuase you tick ‘christian’ on the census form.
    Apparently 76% of the population are religious – but this is not really true.
    Perhaps that many belive in God and ‘indigenous’ white people had a tendency to tick ‘christian’ but still – face facts, we are not a christian country. If there was an ‘agnostic/fence sitter’ box to tick, i think the results would be quite different.
    A belief in god does not really amount to a religion. – Considering british schools indoctrinate christianity – church attendances are rather low. (i would agree that you don’t need to go to a church to worship but christian spirit doesn’t seem that strong nowadays does it?)

    It is certainly fair to say that the Britain was once a christian country and church attendance levels were bolstered by societal pressures to attend – thankfully those days are long gone.

    Should we let Druids and other religions that have been here a lot longer than christianity be in charge? or are we going to go down the ‘majority rule’ road.
    I think your bigoted views of religion is not a good position to argue from.

    Luckily Religions are not in charge in this country anymore and its quite obvious why they shouldn’t be.

    I don’t disbelive that your drive was blocked by cars. Having lived in in and around lichfields town centre for almost ten years and growing up opposite a school – i know how inconsiderate people can be.
    Of course in walsall most of the people blocking your drive would have been asian or muslim.
    Around hereI have been blocked in generally by white people – most of whom according to you are christians – perhaps they though i was also a christian and wouldn’t mind.

    Religion and race is not really a factor here – too many cars and not enough parking spaces is the problem.
    You have a different perspective as for some reason you were a white person living in an asian ghetto.

    Did you tick the wrong box?
    Welcome to our white ghetto.

  211. gastank

    22nd August, 2009 at 9:11 pm

    According to page 57 of the book Islam, Europe’s second religion: the new social, cultural, and political Religion 79% of Pakistani Muslims are house owners, almost 4 out of 5. Against 69.8% for the general UK population as a whole in 2008.

  212. Lulu

    22nd August, 2009 at 9:21 pm

    Concerned Citizen: Now we are really getting down to the bones of it. you are really sounding the racist one !!! thanks for this, showing your true colours lol, Gas Tanks comments: only 50% of M`s are taken over by extremists [ phewwww ] and only 52% of M families would be proud of a family memebr being a suicide bomber, so that means that 52% of the Lichfields M`s would be proud of this !!! – God help us and Vote BNP

  213. gastank

    22nd August, 2009 at 9:52 pm

    “only 52% of M families would be proud of a family member being a suicide bomber, so that means that 52% of the Lichfields M`s would be proud of this !!! – God help us and Vote BNP

    That is not correct – 14% of respondents said they would be proud, the other 38% stated that terrorist action in the UK was justified because of our foreign policy giving 52%.

  214. Unconcerned Citizen

    22nd August, 2009 at 9:58 pm

    Gatank – if i appear racially stereotyping it is because of the context of the conversation.
    We were talking about ghetto areas after all – and ghettos by default are a “portion of a city in which members of a minority group live; especially because of social, legal, or economic pressure.”

    And your survey statistics represent only a percentage of the group of muslims that were surveyed.
    Is this survey the results of painstakingly questioning all 1,500,000 – including of course children that are not even able to speak yet? Or was the survey taken outside a mosque in Highgate north London?

    If you could provide a link to where you got the government statistic of 50% of mosques have been taken over by extremists that would be most useful.

    Also your suggestions of me visiting these various ghettoes where people purchased properties cheaply as a result of Margerat Thatcher selling of housing stock to prevent striking – i am not denying that there are racial tensions created by the divisive methods of the governments ‘multicultural’ housing policies.
    As i have said before – divide and conquer is the oldest trick in the book.

    I don’t doubt the statistic regarding pakistani home ownership – this is merely illustrative of properties in ghettos being cheaper.
    Pakistani Muslims may also have a stronger family unit (pooling resources) due to prejudices and a tendency to work harder as they have come from a country with even less opportunity.
    Also – muslim communities/families often form co-operatives where they have a money pool rather than borrowing money charged with interest (this is illegal under islamic law) (and christian and judaism – but Henry 8th legalised this for C of E with the reformation).
    They use this pool to start businesses such as market stalls, buying taxis and other small cottage industires.
    These co-operatives should be seen as a good example of behaviour rather than being disgruntled about it. Muslim working classes work together, whereas white working classes tend to spend thier time becoming disgruntled at the progress that ethnic minorities make due to reading the Daily mail and The Sun.

    We all have the same opportunities – but the white man has a tendency to ‘work for the man’ whereas the muslim man may get pissed of at being bullied at work, thus start his own business.
    As his business is not generating profits for shareholders etc – unlike an employee who works hard and gets minimal wage – the asian man may have a tendency to make a better life for him self or perhaps be treated like dirt. Its a no brainer really isn’t it?

  215. Lulu

    22nd August, 2009 at 10:16 pm

    This is a Christian country, and this site is against a M in Lichfield, there will not be a M in Lichfield, not now, not ever.

  216. Lulu

    22nd August, 2009 at 10:17 pm

    1% support for M terrorists is too much, keep out of Lichfield

  217. Tax payer

    23rd August, 2009 at 3:54 pm

    Quote from Unconcerned Citizen “We very much have a Ghetto in lichfield apart from it being a White Ghetto meaning it does not strictly meet the definition of ghetto. We certainly have economically deprived areas in lichfield.(the region inside eastern avenue, trent valley road and stafford road – a large chunk of lichfield is or was social housing).End quote.

    Come on unconcerned lets not “spin” so much.
    Do you actualy know someone who is poor?Or do you use the yard stick -they only have one TV and did not go abroad this year?
    The area mentioned does contain social housing but also contains some of the finest dwellings in the shire.
    All of the properties are above standard with the exception some do need superficial attention.The main problem in the area someone called “little Beirut” is the people,a small minority but never the less people.
    Drive down any of the few “old estate houses road” and you can tell the nice people from the – enter you own word!
    Off course there are some people who because of genuine age or ill health can not cope but where are their offspring or neighbors?
    If the police station does need to be moved (and I am against it) why not stick it in the worst area of Lichfield – where ever that may be and not where it is most difficult for the public to visit .
    Could it be they will have too much work and even have to buy an AtoZ to find their way around?
    Why is it a lot of children from most of Lichfield schools know who the drug dealers are but not apparently the police – or do the police know and not bother?.

  218. Unconcerned Citizen

    23rd August, 2009 at 9:55 pm

    Tax payer – The region i was speaking of was mentioned particulary as Lulu said she didn’t want ghettos in lichfield. (of course she later said the intire of the uk is a ghetto). The difference between the finest dwellings and the others houses are illustrative of many of the points i have been making.
    Im not really putting any spins on anything – you guys seem to be attempting all sorts of ‘straw man’ arguments with any with you can quote from me.
    Including calling me a racist stereotyper when gastank is implying a large percaentage of muslims are terrorists.
    Everybody stereo types things but i don’t wish to stop religions, kick asians out of the country and promote an arian race.
    Almost 1 in 3 (31%) of lichfields children are of low income families i’d imagine that the majority of these are not from Gaia lane or the windings. (a good indicator of poverty being present but not a measure of poverty due to the governments questionable ideas of data collection and acceptable standards of living)
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7644155.stm
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4123676.stm
    is further interesting reading on the subject on the effects of poverty upon children.

    However – i feel we are moving of on a tangent with the above – but it may answer your question regarding policing drugs.
    (The police do indeed allow some ‘honey pots’ to continue trading drugs – this is useful intelligence gathering to catch ‘bigger fish’)

    Im not sure why everthing i say is questioned when i can offer evidence supporting it – but no one is interested in the fact that Gastank may have fabricated his government statistic of 50% of uk mosques have been taken over by extremists. (appreciating he may be busy on a sunday – perhaps at church with the rest of the nation).
    Using Gastanks and Lulus extrapolation methods this (50% stat) would mean we have 750,000 extremists running amock in Blighty.
    (more than one in tenth of the population)
    If people with Gastank and Lulus knowledge of statistics are educating the public about islam i would predict a grim future indeed.

    Accepting some people have deterministic views – but if they don’t have an accurate measure of the present perhaps the future they are predicting may also be rather inaccurate.

    I really ought to point out how the human mind works.
    We have evolved to function as part of small tribes. We have not evolved to deal with mass media.
    Neurons that fire together wire together.
    So if you regulalry show people a displeasing image of a particular ethnic group on newspapers and televisions – people will tend to think that arab=terrorist.
    Of course some asianss are terrorists, however some are in the british army, a large number in the uk are Doctors. Some White Christians are also terrorists. most in actuality aren’t.
    This explains why Lulu and Gastank are feeling defensive of thier tribe (the common tribe factor being whiteness or perhaps christian in lulus case)
    This phenononem is regularly played with by the media. Remember devil dogs? Chavs?

    Anyway….
    Lets have that statistic link from Gastank – not that i believe everything the government says anyway but it would be nice to know im not arguing with people who simply make everthing up to suit racist adgendas.

  219. gastank

    23rd August, 2009 at 10:25 pm

    Almost half of Britain’s mosques are under the control of a hardline Islamic sect whose leading preacher loathes Western values and has called on Muslims to “shed blood” for Allah, an investigation by The Times has found.

    Riyadh ul Haq, who supports armed jihad and preaches contempt for Jews, Christians and Hindus, is in line to become the spiritual leader of the Deobandi sect in Britain. The ultra-conservative movement, which gave birth to the Taleban in Afghanistan, now runs more than 600 of Britain’s 1,350 mosques, according to a police report seen by The Times.

    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article2402973.ece

    How Britain’s mosques foster extremism. Sectarian, conservative leadership is driving confused young Muslims into the arms of radicals
    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/guest_contributors/article5792445.ece

  220. Unconcerned Citizen

    24th August, 2009 at 5:10 pm

    Firstly lets look at who the quilliam foundation are.
    They are a Non government but government funded independant group. (quango)
    The article states there are between 1,200 and 1,600 mosques. The other article states there are 1350 – i’m sure you’d agree that some people who don’t know how many mosques there are may not be all that thorough in thier data collection methods – and certainly may not be all that authoritive in what they claim.

    Also – they don’t seem to adress the fact that British and American foriegn policy may have an affect of increasing terrorism here – i am not justifying terrorism but our foriegn policy has certainly been scrutinized recently regarding our presence in Iraq and Afghanistan – particularly when you think it was only just over 20 years ago that the SAS were assisting the Taliban in a certain war in afghanistan – including training in the construction of improvised bombs/land mines. America provided them with guns and rocket launchers.
    If you take into account Blair followed Bush who said God told him to do it – its easy to see why theres all sorts of crazy stuff occuring.

    The survey (although perhaps indicative of a level of hardliners in mosques) is not reflective of UK muslims as a whole.
    1,500,000 muslims certainly wont be attending just 1200 mosques.

    However – removing mosques won’t remove extremists it would almost certainly create more.
    What are these ‘western values’ which these people hate?
    Also there is a difference between a hardliner and an extremist/terrorist.
    The taliban started as a political militia – their school of thought tends to be Deobandi – rather than the Deobandis creating the Taliban.

    Why did all the terrorist attacks occur?
    Is it really just simply down to a conflict of religions?
    Should a religious country accept usuary money as its system of economics if they don’t want to?
    Liberalising other countriesmarkets through military force isn’t really all that acceptable is it?

    Until people face up to the fact that actions have reactions we will be suffering terrorism for quite some time.
    Getting rid of mosques won’t solve anything and will certainly make things worse.

    I agree that there are some islamic fundamentalist terrorist nasties here – but the problem is rather small rather than rather large – or they’d just be throwing concrete blocks onto train tracks and of motorway bridges wouldn’t they? And we’d all be rather screwed.

    I also think that a socipathic personality disorder may play a large part in many of the cases of terrorists. (this is less than one in 20 people generally and only a small percentage of those are killers). – extra poliating this there certainly aren’t 300,000 terrorists running amok here.
    300,000 is a low number compared to the amount of extremists you could extrapolate from the quilliam foundation survey if you freely interchange the term ‘hardliner’ with ‘extremist’.

    For some reason a large proportion of muslims won’t have anything to do with this quilliam foundation – after all – the quilliam foundation seems to be just another sect of islam that is getting govenment funding.

  221. Lulu

    24th August, 2009 at 6:40 pm

    This site isnt about politics and history, Lichfield will not have a M because it dosnt fit in with the character of Lichfield, there are plenty of M`s in B- O – T, Walsall, B/Ham, go there.

  222. Unconcerned Citizen

    25th August, 2009 at 8:26 am

    Lulu – you misunderstund the term ‘in character’ or more often used ‘in keeping’ regarding town planning issues.
    These terms are entirely regarding what the building looks like and wether it fits in (or is ‘sympathetic’) to how surrounding buildings.
    I’m no expert but i think those terms are only of any use to new builds – particularly in lichfields conservation areas.

    Using an already present building – given the number of churches already present in most of lichfield – getting planning permission for change of use is likely to be a mere triviality.

    I think given the small number of muslims and the high cost of properties here i doubt Abdul will have any money to spend.
    I have heard that his property business has gone into liquidation (from tennants evicted as he had not paid the mortgage.)

    I think you can sleep well for a while – and until a planning application is submitted – ignore Abdul and his publicity Stunts.

  223. John Kennet

    25th August, 2009 at 10:05 am

    I live in Spain for some 5 months a year ( early retirement ) but my wife was recentely emailed regarding this blog/site/page , I would advise you to disregard the comments made by” Unconcerned Citizen says:
    August 25, 2009 at 8:26 am ” and tread carefully as it doesn’t seem to short a time ago that we had not heard of muslim extremists in the UK . I get back to my home in Lichfield usually in Sept for my first spell then alternate between the 2 countries so I will be reading this and any other sites ( does anyone know of any ?) that are discussing this issue when I return, lets remember that Lichfield is a lovely city thats steeped in a history that we dont want changed by outside’s’ that includes town planning commitees that are not from Lichfield but have the pleasure in working here, advice is welcome but change need to be carefully considered , also this abdul mat be an attention seeker but he is possibly a dangerous one .

  224. John Kennet

    25th August, 2009 at 10:07 am

    should read outsider’s then after not mat but may :-) John

  225. Lulu

    25th August, 2009 at 6:51 pm

    Concerned Citizen: We against the Mosque will not rest until it is clear by everyone including the council that no M will ever be built or any present building ever made into one, we have only just started in our campaign and will never give in until we have achieved our goal, I notice a new person on this blog from Spain is against the M , IT NOW SOUNDS TO ME THAT EVEN THE TOURIST TRADE WILL BE AFFECTED !!!.

  226. John Kennet

    26th August, 2009 at 1:03 pm

    Lulu I’m from Lichfield but reside in Spain for part of the year , I’m voicing my opinion because I truly just want our beautiful city to remain as it is , I find it hard to believe that a successful business man as abdul is ,would even think of upsetting the locals many of whom must be or have been his customers , should the locals decide not to use his restaurant then the blame lies purely with him , I for one have never used his place as I prefer Tommy Hoe’s Chinese ” The Ruby ” just up the road , but lets see if he has dug a hole that he may find it hard to get out of , I would however say that your right in as much as the tourist trade could be affected .

  227. Tax payer

    26th August, 2009 at 4:26 pm

    Tourist trade affected or not?
    Go to any “M” and look at the area nearby – would tourists want to visit that area in preference to Lichfield as it is now?
    Do we want that quality of area transposed to Lichfield?
    Lichfield is only a (small) city because of its cathedral status (capital of Mercia?).Not long ago it had a village type atmosphere but now with its 24/7 culture it has grown into a town.
    No one – except those who do not count the cost – can expect a theater/cinema/hospital at the end of every ones drive.
    People in the largest cities have to travel ,as far as Lichfield locals, to reach their entertainment .Why then do some people think this village should have it all and why are they frightened to travel the short distance to a wide range of venues?We can not afford a hospital so why do they think we should give preference to entertainment!!!Lets keep its village/small town appeal and not change it into another all the same lego land shopping mall.

  228. Unconcerned Citizen

    27th August, 2009 at 11:11 pm

    Tax payer –
    Repton was the capital of mercia.
    I think suggestions that a mosque ‘runs down’ an area may be wrong.
    Mosque came after the area was run down – rather than it being the other way round.

    Scenario being – there is a grotty ‘low rent’ area. Low paid migrant workers tended to moved there as it was all they could afford and they would get less abuse in these areas – also it may be where they were placed by social housing. Then, Local governments ‘get away’ with not maintaining these areas (who gives a damn about the migrants?). Then somebody coincidently builds a mosque.
    Its not a chicken and egg situation – mosques didn’t run down an area – they are part of the culture of some minorities who tended to have to live in already run down areas.
    Its a no brainer – deny it all you like – but what i have written above is true.

  229. Unconcerned Citizen

    28th August, 2009 at 10:40 pm

    Lulu – run down, kebab shops, litter noise and parking problems are certainly already present in the town . Gangs and ghettos is debatable – but perhaps here in a minor way although i’d agree not to the same level as south central L.A
    Shall we blame the cathedral for our problems?

  230. gastank

    28th August, 2009 at 10:48 pm

    “think suggestions that a mosque ‘runs down’ an area may be wrong. Mosque came after the area was run down – rather than it being the other way round.”

    Sorry – no way I have the pictures of the immaculate shops at Pleck and Caldmore Green when it was a nice area in the 60’s before the cultural enrichment really got going. Western Union Transfer, Mobiles unlocked, Immigration and benefit advice anyone.The run down white areas the were Goscote, Ryecroft and the like where the slum clearance families were moved to after WWII following the major council house building programme ( and yes they wrecked it quickly enough).

    I sometimes wonder have you never looked at the books of Birmingham in the 50’s and 60’s showing then and now. Its not about all that rubbish of sending them home, its about having some kind of shared values and interest to bond people together. Instead in the UK we seem to be the only country in the world that is embarrassed of its own culture and instead promotes alternative cultures, although even Roy Jenkins started to question the wisdom of this in his final years..

    However glad to see you have more or less come round to the conclusion that the housing is more or less through choice in the Muslim community and yes I agree the cheapness has been a magnet.

  231. gastank

    28th August, 2009 at 10:51 pm

    Then, Local governments ‘get away’ with not maintaining these areas (who gives a damn about the migrants?).
    Come off it Sure Start, New Deal look at eduaction spending per pupil in urban areas compared to the Shires.

  232. A steak lover.

    28th August, 2009 at 11:07 pm

    John Kennet Have you read http://www.ratemyplace.org.uk

  233. Tax Payer

    28th August, 2009 at 11:21 pm

    Unconcerned Citizen ” Shall we blame the cathedral for our problems? ” I think you will find that the properties around the cathedral are suitable for a bishop or two and others fetch quite a bit even today.
    Also no shortage of kids choosing that school!So yes if you wish we can blame the cathedral for encouraging such nice properties/people to the area.
    The argument that the “M” look for a home in a low quality area suggests that they would not like Lichfield – too nice.

  234. o'cearbhaill

    29th August, 2009 at 1:16 am

    I’m starting to doubt unconcerned c’s wisdom. I was reared in a wonderful area of Birmingham, there was a sense of pride in the area and property. We had a wonderful park, tended by an army of gardeners; it was a joy to grow up there.Fishing i n the pond. Local pubs and a cinema. It certainly wasn’t run down in any respect whatsoever. Anyway, my point being is that I travelled through the area 2 weeks ago and I felt like crying. It certainly isn’t the area I grew up in. NOW it IS deprived and run down. I’m not having to reminisce too far back either.

  235. Unconcerned Citizen

    29th August, 2009 at 9:24 am

    Gastank –
    I think we both agree on the fact that ‘cultural enrichment’ or ‘multiculturalism’ (where cultures are given seperate areas to live in) doesn’t work.

    In a nut shell –
    Governments Created an economically deprived area and have cause a lot of problems. (the degree to which is intentional would take a lot of discussion)
    Also – this segregation prevents ‘integration’ into the shared values that you are talking about.
    Also – we are talking about islam – and not all the brown people in these areas are islamic.

    However – Abduls mosque is a completely different kettle of fish to the post WW2 mass imigration that you refer to in history.

    I do appretiate peoples xenophobic fears on this issue – and the governments of past and present tend to make a complete botch of things – integration so people can have common values is the way forward.

    If islam is incompatible with these values then we will ultimatly end up fighting in the streets over it.
    If that ever is to happen it is better that it occurs for genuine reasons (time will tell) rather than as a result of the governments manipulative attempts to divide, conquer and keep wages low.

    Democracy is not about oppressing minority groups and hopefully never will be.
    it would be morally wrong and only be legal by the fact it is written on a peice of paper.

    What point are you making with “Sure Start, New Deal look at eduaction spending per pupil in urban areas compared to the Shires” ?

  236. Lulu

    29th August, 2009 at 12:11 pm

    Lichfield is a great and nice place to be, it would not if a M and an influx of these worshippers were here

  237. John Kennet

    29th August, 2009 at 8:38 pm

    A steak lover I had not read http://www.ratemyplace.org.uk however I now have , buts what your point ? But to get to the point I think that the local goverment/council should let the people of Lichfield decide whether they want Lichfield changed to the degree that is being talked about here , lets have a vote is a mosque required or wanted in the area of Lichfield ? lobby your local M P also if your against the idea then its up to you to decide where you want to eat , do you want to encourage this abdul?

  238. Sammy J

    29th August, 2009 at 11:07 pm

    Can it just be reminded that there has not yet been any formal application and therefore there’s nothing to vote on.
    Might I also suggest that certain commenters are never going to agree and might just be going round and round in circles and would be better agreeing to disagree? Just a thought, like.

  239. A Steak Lover

    29th August, 2009 at 11:57 pm

    John Kennet You say you eat at a place in Lichfield – you say you have looked at the Ratemyplace – and you ask – whats the point!!!!

  240. John Kennet

    30th August, 2009 at 12:15 pm

    Sammy J ( glad you dont use Tony B or Adolph H ) your right I think the discussion has come to an end , but before I sign off can you let us know who you are or who employes you , and is this a paid job , and finally , do the people of Lichfield vote for the Lord Mayor if so what are his powers and how do people get to be considered or the job as Lord Mayor and when does the voting take place ?

  241. Unconcerned Citizen

    30th August, 2009 at 12:21 pm

    I agree with Sammy J.

  242. Sammy J

    30th August, 2009 at 1:00 pm

    Not employed by anyone for this site and it’s certainly not a paid position – the site is run by a handful of volunteers and contributors.

  243. Tax Payer

    30th August, 2009 at 4:45 pm

    Some cities allow the plebs to vote for a “Mayor”.
    Lichfield has a “Lord Mayor” which is decided by a few elite – the plebs do not have a say in it..Look here it may help – http://www.lichfield.gov.uk/cc.ihtml

  244. Lulu

    30th August, 2009 at 7:58 pm

    This site is not going round and round in a circle, the conclusion is – there will never be a M in Lichfield, not now, not ever

  245. Unconcerned Citizen

    31st August, 2009 at 10:23 am

    John – The mayor is an elected councillor who is selected by the council to perform mayoral duties – i don’t know if they have a vote or a discussion.
    Aside from chairing council meetings the Mayors position is more custom/traditional.
    I’m not aware of him having any powers – but chairing councils meetings he could have a degree of influence – but as he was chosen by the council themselves its probably not that important.

    The council does have a Leader (more important than the mayor really) – who is currently David Smith.

  246. Sammy J

    31st August, 2009 at 12:25 pm

    I’d argue it is going round and round as you’ve made that point umpteen times already!

  247. John Kennet

    31st August, 2009 at 12:46 pm

    Sammy thats what i said

  248. Sammy J

    31st August, 2009 at 2:08 pm

    I was replying to Lulu, John.

  249. John Kennet

    2nd September, 2009 at 2:25 pm

    Well Sammy i’ll sign off now BUT I hope the powers that be have taken note of the problems that have recentley happened again in Luton also in many other cities over the past years when an application is submitted for a mosque , I would also point out that I have Jewish friends in Lichfield who travel to Birmingham if and when its neccesary to visit their place of worship , so let the muslim population of Lichfield take note if it’s that important to them to pray then either pray at home or trave, finally does the muslim community pay to use this hall in Curborough Road?

  250. Lulu

    13th September, 2009 at 10:01 am

    well said John Kennet

  251. John Kennet

    14th September, 2009 at 10:21 pm

    Thanks Lulu but take note that no one is prepared to say whether or not the muslim community pats their way in Curborough Road

  252. John Kennet

    14th September, 2009 at 10:22 pm

    should read pays their way :-)

  253. Julie Kennedy

    28th September, 2009 at 9:52 pm

    I would be complaining about the noise. How ridiculous. This cannot go ahead.

  254. Classcrisis

    29th September, 2009 at 2:05 pm

    There is no mosque, there never was a mosque only Abdul Salam and his need for attention.

    The genuine (spiritual) need of the Muslims in the area for somewhere to pray seems to be being fulfilled adequately by existing community resources – despite Mr Salam’s claims to the contrary – and as they are members of the Lichfield community this is quite right in our view.

  255. richard hill

    24th November, 2009 at 2:05 am

    why should we let people build such buildings next to our churches of england would they let us build churches next to there religious buildings ? i think not.
    we let them into our country dont you think that is enough.our Country our rules that is what i think.
    give them what they want and they take power over us get what they want government dont know what they are doing

  256. James

    14th January, 2010 at 2:50 pm

    {Classcrisis says:
    29th September, 2009 at 2:05 pm
    There is no mosque, there never was a mosque only Abdul Salam and his need for attention.

    The genuine (spiritual) need of the Muslims in the area for somewhere to pray seems to be being fulfilled adequately by existing community resources …..}

    ***Can I please bring this to your attention: http://www.thisislichfield.co.uk/news/Lichfield-Muslims-bid-mosque-site-accepted/article-1708533-detail/article.html

  257. Class Crisis

    14th January, 2010 at 6:15 pm

    Seems to me what I said in September still holds, there is no new building but the change of use of an existing one. I’m not certain but from what I’ve read so far but it seems LICS are funding the purchase and conversion themselves. It’s a pity for them that Abdul kicked things off last year in such an insane fashion.

    I suppose this gives the BNP in the city something utterly irrelevant to spend their time worrying about, which is nice for them. I look forward to seeing what they do.

  258. Tax Payer

    14th January, 2010 at 7:01 pm

    Can we please have details of how much the building was sold for – before completion?
    Did the tax payer give them a grant/loan etc?

    Did they buy it before they got permission?

  259. Tax Payer

    15th January, 2010 at 12:05 am

    Quote “our bid was accepted for a suitable building with the appropriate planning permission in Lichfield”End quote.

    Does this statement mean they have permission?

  260. James

    15th January, 2010 at 10:31 am

    There has been no application for planning permission yet. On their website the group (LICS) states that the cost of the building’s purchase and refurbishment will be £500,000. I can understand the local residents fears about parking problems if 1000 people (Abdul’s words) use building that only has 12 parking spaces and is accessed via a narrow road.

  261. Heather

    15th January, 2010 at 1:29 pm

    The follwing post on “A Noticeboard” shows that LICS are requesting donations of £1000 from 500 Muslims so it appears the don’t have the funding in place yet. How, therefore, can their bid be accepted?

    http://www.salaam.co.uk/forum/read.php?f=4&i=535110&t=534909&v=f

    There is no record of an application for Chabge of Use on Lichfield District Council’s website

  262. Tax Payer

    2nd February, 2010 at 2:26 pm

    There seems to be a lot of work going on in the building – who’s paying for that?
    The power used can not be cheap – lights on all day – are we paying for that?
    If normal requirements are met (you do no work till prop is paid for) – what is going on?
    Mr. Walker is usually willing to break ranks – can he inform us of the present state of play?

    If this is the total debate perhaps the locals do not mind the change of use.

  263. Tax Payer

    3rd February, 2010 at 3:07 pm

    It looks like I am heading for the most red minus’s on record.
    I will be generous and presume at least one of the people who clicked a red minus can read and write.
    If that is so would you like to use that skill and explain why you are opposed to me asking questions?

  264. Louise

    30th November, 2010 at 11:19 pm

    How are plans for the Mosque progressing?

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