Paul Ray and Michael Fabricant

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A Liberal Democrat councillor has called on Lichfield and Burntwood MP Michael Fabricant to “get real” over the nation’s prospects if a no-deal Brexit goes ahead.

Cllr Paul Ray’s comments came after a local newspaper column written by the Conservative MP where he outlined his views around the UK leaving the European Union. He has also written about his take on the situation in a national newspaper.

Paul Ray and Michael Fabricant

Mr Fabricant wrote in the Telegraph that “it has become apparent that a no-deal Brexit disaster is just not going to happen”.

But Cllr Ray said any prospect of a so-called “managed no-deal Brexit” would not provide a positive outcome for the UK.

“What Michael Fabricant actually said was that if we crash out of the EU with no-deal then everything is going to be fine,” Cllr Ray said.

“Michael and other arch-Brexiteers need to get real and need to listen to leading businesses in our region – Jaguar Land Rover, BMW, Toyota and companies in the West Midlands that supply into those companies.

“No deal will be a catastrophy. I have been round the Toyota site at Burnaston and it does does not have any warehousing for the components it uses. Companies like Toyota operate with just in time logistics.

“So delays in getting components and products in and out of the UK will have massive consequences.”

Cllr Ray also accused Mr Fabricant of missing key points when analysing the data around Brexit.

The Lib Dem councillor said: “He keeps trotting out the argument that we are largest export market for the German automotive industry, but what Michael Fabricant does not tell you is that 44% of our exports go to the EU and 8% of the EU’s exports go into the UK.

“It’s a simple statistic that shows that we are are much more reliant on EU trade than vice versa.”

Cllr Ray also insisted it was essential the UK’s stance did not undo the work of decades of negotiations.

“Michael also demonstrates such a lack of understanding what the EU means to our partners on the continent,” he said. “Millions and million of Germans, French, Italians and others have died in truly awful conflicts over recent centuries.

“Those wounds run very deep and our European neighbours have a total commitment to bind the countries in Europe together by creating a trading bloc.

“That is a fantastic principle – if people have a common goal of trading together and building their economies for the good of their populations they come closer together. That is a fundamental point which so many ;eavers just do not get.”

Cllr Ray said it was essential that the people of the UK had a say on the terms of any exit from the EU.

“The coming weeks in Parliament will be so significant for the future of our country,” he said.

“Whatever happens, MPs like Michael Fabricant must not let us leave the EU without a deal.

“The situation we are facing is clear. Parliament and the country is divided. Business is saying we have to have a Brexit that keeps trade flowing smoothly. So we need to extend Article 50 and let the people have a final say in a People’s Vote.

“I urge Michael Fabricant and similarly minded MPs to drop their obsessive anti-EU ideology and do the right thing for our country.” 

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39 replies on “Lib Dem councillor calls on Lichfield and Burntwood MP to “get real” on consequences of a no-deal Brexit”

  1. Michael Fabricant like all other Brexiter MPs fails to mention any real benefits to Brexit. And one has to wonder why they support this insanity. Tory government has been successful in pretending that most problems of UK are caused by the EU – instead of exploitative MPs. They prattle on about sovereignty, making our own laws, getting back control. So many soundbites that hide the truth. They don’t want UK Parliament to be sovereign. Theresa May made the decision for UK to leave EU. An advisory referendum is being used to ruin the welfare state. Billions of pounds are being wasted on Brexit that is ruining our country. Xenophobia whipped up to get Brexit through against the best interest of majority even of those who voted for it. Tories are a shambles. Drones stop flights – were they real or not? Chris Grayling in a farcical No Deal preparation couldn’t even muster 150 lorries to fake a queue in a disused airfield? The reality is that No Deal would be an absolute catastrophe. UK has already lost over 300000 jobs. Fabricant is an appalling MP – and Brexiter MPs really ought to end up in prison. They are the cause of all the chaos and it hasn’t even got going yet. Just in Time can’t function outside of the Single Market & Customs Union. There is almost nothing in place for No Deal, yet these moronic MPs pretend it’s all going to be ok. UK has lost all EU agencies, much of the banking from London. Factories enforced shut down – people laid off. Michael Fabricant doesn’t care. He’s alright Jack – £77000 pa salary, expenses. Newspaper articles. Something like 80% of MPs are millionaires. Brexit isn’t of any benefit to UK. And the losses are already immense. Thank Michael Fabricant when your job disappears. Thank him when taxes increase and when our NHS staff continue to leave to return due to the hostile environment created by Brexit. Thank our MP when the food banks usage increases. A No Deal Brexit would result in even worse NHS, care services etc. MPs ought to have to pass stringent tests including ethics. UK is in the grip of insanity. If you vote Tory or support Brexit you are aiding in the decline of the UK.
    The £ has lost 20% so far since EU Ref result. Some Tories made a lot of money when the £ dropped on day result was known. Crispin Odey, Tory funder gained £ millions overnight. How many MPs also profited? Even Theresa May and her husband probably gain with Brexit. But ask yourself who in our city will benefit financially or otherwise. UK will not be richer if Brexit happens. Tories have sold off most assets. British Airways is Spanish owned! When UK leaves the EU investment in UK will decrease even more. UK citizens will be queuing up at European airports and paying for a visa. And we lose the EHIC card so travel and medical insurance is going to be really expensive. Loss of Freedom of Movement means YOUR loss of FoM too. Yes, the EU needs reform – and it’s beginning. There will be improvements. But we lose our say at the table. UK will be subject to regulations etc but without any influence. Taking back control was a lie – we lose it. Those who think WTO will be ok perhaps haven’t noticed that many countries have already objected to UK trade. No “rolling over”. Everything will take years. March 2019 is just the end of the beginning – years of trying to sort out trade. UK has no experience of free trade agreements – having benefitted from EU for 45 years. We had the best deal of all EU countries and a great deal of say.

  2. Well written Ms Rapley. No doubt some Fabricant pals like Rob or Margaret Eastham will turn up to say its all Labour’s fault. Much like it was all Labour’s fault that their massive reserves were squandered by the local Tories, and Labours fault that Cllr Wilcox and his chums spent £15m and rising on a white elephant development

  3. One point that should be remembered is that this country held a legally binding referendum. It was not an opinion poll. It was not merely advisory.

    The people of Chadsmead, Lichfield, the UK voted for Brexit. The government now has to deliver Brexit.

    It is high time Cllr Ray remembers that the people who voted him onto the council, voted for Brexit.

  4. I cannot recall any previous occasion when a legitimately conducted democratic vote has been challenged so vociferously. The backroom squad of the remain side have compiled hurdle after hurdle in an attempt to discredit the outcome. There is, of course, vested interests in their campaign. What company would not want cheap labour and low taxes? They are no philanthropists; paying as little as possible, through clever accountants, to the government coffers. And, irrespective of any incentives they may have been given, moving abroad if it improves profit margins. That is business life; it exists outside of government and has no conscience. Trade agreements benefit them not the general population.
    Successive governments attempted to renegotiate our terms of membership. The last one during the Cameron government ultimately failed and led to the referendum. Since the outcome the EU has demonstrated its disdain for us and must be laughing behind our backs at the pathetic way the situation has been progressed. A resolute, combined, assertive approach would have produced results. Having shown our Achilles heel we would now have no power whatsoever if we remained in the EU. Basically we would be ignored. All the legitimate reasons for leaving are still valid. The democratic process would be properly served if the referendum decision was to stand. If, at a later date, any government could be persuaded to conduct a future referendum with a view to re-joining then so be it. THAT IS DEMOCRACY! To do things otherwise might well create a situation that permanently damages our method of governance.

  5. Cllr Ray
    It started off as a “trading bloc” but unfortunately became more than that. That’s where the problem lies. They will not reform!! ( The gravy train elite).

  6. The EU Referendum was not binding. The government stated this to be the case. There is no obligation to carry out the result. An advisory ref by definition cannot be binding. Parliament has not done its job. David Cameron got MPs to agree that they would respect the result. What Cllr O’Hagan fails to mention is the lies, deceit, electoral law breaking, foreign money and legal cases which undermine the Ref result. If it had been a proper non-advisory ref the result would have been null and void due to all the rule breaking. The Leave campaigns broke the law and money bought the result. Also many who will be most affected by this disaster Brexit were disallowed a vote. The whole thing is a con carried out on the people who have been misled to believe that it will solve austerity. It’s already worse, and will get unbearable. Corruption in UK politics got this ill advised, badly run Ref that is ruining our country. The docu-drama on Channel 4 shows how it was won – by data targeting. The EU has been made out to be the cause of all problems in UK. 99% of which are caused by out exploiter government. There is nothing to be gained by Brexit. People did not vote to be worse off or to lose their jobs. As for suggestion that EU has acted with disdain – nonsense. They have been respectful throughout. A rules based trading bloc is not going to bend itself to fit a greedy UK. We have a really good deal – achieved by David Cameron. We are not in the Schengen & don’t have the Euro. It’s a deceit the whole disaster of Brexit. Democracy is not a one 0ff frozen in time event. Nigel Farage said if Remain won 52%-48% the matter would not be ended. ie he would be demanding another referendum. So many crooked things went on with this bad Ref. A Tory was in charge of vote counting in one set up – completely illegal. I don’t have the facts to hand – but it happened. Scotland & N Ireland are being dragged out of EU against the way they voted. UK has lost trillions £ in investments due to Brexit. What are the legitimate reasons for leaving the EU then? And what do people think the benefits are? Because UK is already hugely disadvantaged. And a laughing stock in the wider world. Theresa May has achieved the only deal on the table. It offers little protection to jobs and still leave UK bound to much of EU compliance etc. This is all very complex. Most people haven’t grappled with any of the reality of the practical issues. Brexit is not yet a done deal. Either Parliament must do its job and revoke Article 50 if MPs do not accept the Withdrawal Agreement – or offer a People’s Vote. The Ref was utterly stupid – to carry out a fundamental change in constitution without a super majority. Based on the whipped up xenophobia that stirred up hatred and made people hate the EU. Immigration will not improve as a result of Brexit. And UK has no experience in trade deals having done nothing for 45 years – as the EU has made us more prosperous. Anyone seeing the facts now is insane to think Brexit is a good thing. By government’s own analysis we lose out. UK is in a mess because politics is led mostly by wealthy exploiters. Brexit is not for the benefit of the masses. It’s a corrupt devious nasty exploitation of them. Our method of governance needs to change. UK need proportional representation – not this pathetic First Past the Post system that only allows 2 parties to dominate. Corruption and lies have become acceptable. This is not how it should be. Listening to Parliament TV and watching how in particular the Tory MPs behave makes one ashamed to be British. Most MPs are not serving the best interest of UK. And Brexit is not in our best interest. It was advisory. And no-one on the Leave side had a plan or vision for how to carry it out. 2 and 1/2 years down the road we now know more. But if the WA is passed there are going to be years of negotiation. Tories couldn’t organise 150 lorries to create a fake traffic jam leaving a disused air field the other day. Nor could they stop a drone from closing down Gatwick airport for flights for days. Brexit will be a catastrophe – hard or soft we will lose more than the 300000 jobs already gone. What for? Sovereignty (we never lost it whilst in EU), border controls – it will get worse because Dover will be a nightmare and unable to cope – control of our money. Well the small proportion that was going to EU which we got back much of in grants etc will not be re-cooped. Tories are spending billions of £ preparing for the disaster of Brexit. There won’t be any savings. So Brexit supporters – prepare for more austerity and even greater exploitation. You are being played.

  7. Jon – I’m wanting to protect Chadsmead’s residents jobs. There’s no point being blindly ideological and anti-EU when business is warning that Brexit is going to harm our industry and levels of employment.

  8. Cllr O’hagan Not everyone voted for Brexit. Interesting how 48% of the voting contingent have now been frozen out. I agree with Cllr Ray on this one, hopefully more voices to be heard. Should there be a discussion at Lichfield Council about writing to the MP?

    A no deal Brexit isn’t a sensible move and Fabricant and O’Hagan need to understand this. Easy to say no issue when your wage is paid by Government.

  9. The gravy train elite include all those MEPs like Farage . Gerard Batten , Daniel Hannan, Godfrey Bloom & Roger Helmer who have enjoyed very fat salaries, expenses and pensions. 78 MEPs all elected to work for the benefit of the UK. And some of them – certainly the above mentioned – all like snakes seeking to get us out of what benefits the masses. People have no idea of the good that our membership brings about – and at what little cost. The proportion of spend is miniscule. We have enjoyed grants , subsidies, road building, infrastructure etc. All going to pot to benefit these MEPs. They work the systems. Farage even used EU money for his sneaky anti EU campaigns. The gravy train is really terrible in UK politics. Such corruption and deceit. Watch “Brexit – the Uncivil War” and you begin to understand how the Leave campaigns won. And that’s even without drama documentary covering the law breaking. The Tory government has done its best to sweep the illegality of the EU Referendum result under the carpet. Article 50 can and should be revoked. Brexit is not only of no benefit, but if it goes ahead will involve at least a decade of negotiations. By ministers who have shown they are completely incompetent. We have lost over 300000 jobs and more going. At a small scale level, the reason Lichfield is losing our much valued M&S Simply Food is the decrease in value of £ and increasing costs. Higher rates. This is not the only reason, but it’s clearly having a dire effect on the High Street and spending. People voted for Brexit for many reasons, but most of them are nothing to do with the EU. Watch the Channel 4 programme & you understand the corruption and use of data. The number of ballots not received – yet ignored by the Electoral Commission – outnumbered the swing to Leave. The EU Referendum was not democratic because of the targeted Facebook ads to many people who had never voted before – playing to fears with lies. Turkey was not going to join the EU. And there never was going to be £350 million per week for the NHS. The MPs will all benefit from Brexit. The MEPs have their fat pensions to look forward to. Brexit is happening because the fat cat MPs want to avoid the EU Tax Avoidance Directive coming into force 1 April 2019. Those that are driving Brexit are not the working classes. Who before that disaster Ref even thought for a moment about the EU. All the problems are caused by our own government. And it will get worse for the most vulnerable. Fabricant is rich. He won’t be worrying about whether he has a job or not.

  10. There is plenty of evidence to suggest that the underlying problem is not one of politics but of capitalism. Big business holds government’s to ransom. We are supposedly the six or seventh most wealth country in the world but the government and council’s do not have the money and the general population are not conspicuously well heeled. There are sectors, however, which are demonstrably rich and some use the influence this affords them to steer politics to their ends. We are seeing some aspects of this industrial blackmail with Brexit. I am not in favour of a communist state but nor do I find this unacceptable face of capitalism palatable either.

  11. Cllr O’Hagan, I simply don’t understand why the fact that “The people of Chadsmead, Lichfield, the UK voted for Brexit.” means that Cllr Ray must be wrong to have fears that leaving the EU without a deal would harm local businesses and people in the West Midlands.
    What is the logic of that argument?

  12. Philip Allso, you say that “Trade agreements benefit them [companies] not the general population.”
    But I thought we were told that a major reason to Vote Leave was because the UK is restricted from making trade agreements?

  13. ‘WestMidlands’, I think you are confusing two separate situations. Trade agreements clearly benefit companies otherwise there would be no point having them. Such agreements existed within the EU but were restrictive. You were not allowed to make agreements outside the union. There is a whole world outside of the EU who will see the advantage of trade with a highly developed country. I would suggest to you that if it had been a Trade Union who has implemented similar restrictions the whole country would be up in arms. I have always considered our membership a mixed blessing but of latter years the federal control of our country is of concern. The EU has become too large. The vested interests of the many member states easily outweigh any of our concerns (as I think has been shown in the leaving agreement). The negative aspects I have witnessed will have long term consequences whether we leave or not. It would be a mistake to think that other European countries are not similarly concerned. The fluidity of world populations is having an impact on many countries and communities. Should we try to restrict this? Well we all have opinions depending on our situation.

  14. Philip Allso Well said!! Very eloquently put.
    Christine Rapley What are you like when your upset? The Remain Campaign were just as devious. The EU has developed into what was predicted in the 1970s. A Federal State. That’s what I’m against.
    Hope my Opinion doesn’t offend anybody?

  15. Christine just a little known fact of the channel 4 programme Brexit you mentioned. It’s Political Advisor was none other than Craig Oliver, David Cameron’s Remain Advisor. Strange that?

  16. Whereas the Remain side may have exaggerated immediate likely consequences of Brexit they do not bare comparison with the utter lies and deceit of the Leave campaigns. Remember all the promises – £350 million per week for the NHS, all the cards being in UK hand, trade deals the easy peasy, all of the benefits with none of the obligations etc. And the warnings that Turkey was going to join the EU, photo of mile long queue of people fleeing war torn countries (Farage standing in front of poster). Where were the devious lies on the Remain side? The error Remain campaign made was in failing to educate about the massive benefits of EU membership. Only now are we beginning to see the consequences of Brexit folly. £1 trillion investment leaving London. NHS costs escalating due to sinking £ caused by Brexit.
    As for the political advisor for “Brexit – the Uncivil War” being Cameron’s remain advisor – what about Matthew Elliot CEO of Leave – central member of Conservative Friends of Russia with Russian ties. And Arron Banks ties to Russia also. Tory Party has been taking large donations from Russians also. Corruption is at the heart of the EU Referendum result. Although the Channel 4 shows much of the corruption it didn’t go far enough. Brexit is a stinker and it’s ruining our country and lives of millions of people. It matters hugely. The EU is not the problem it’s made out to be. Our prosperity and security is bound up with Europe. And as for the likelihood of trade deals under WTO from what I’ve read they will take years of negotiation. WTO is run by the unelected. And sovereignty goes out the door if/ when we leave the EU. It’s a great big con. Wake up and smell the coffee. Brexit is for the rich at the cost of the multitude of UK and resident EU citizens. And we all lose our Freedom of Movement. That might not matter to you or I, but it is vital for the livelihood of many. EU27 lose their freedom of movement to 1 country – we lose ours for 27 countries. So, it’s not a question of whether I’m upset – a patronising comment – but the debate about consequences. This is the biggest political coup in UK history I reckon. And the masses have been duped into voting against their own best interest (mostly) – apart from the political and other exploiters.
    There are about 11 legal cases in process relating to the EU Referendum at present.
    Scotland and NI are being taken out of the EU against how they voted. Scotland was tricked into agreeing to the Ref. When they wanted the stipulation that all 4 devolved areas must agree, they were told it didn’t matter because it was only an Advisory Referendum.
    We all lose with Brexit, apart from MPs, MEPs , newspaper barons and the likes of Lord Ashcroft. The result was bought with big money and the whipping up of xenophobia.
    We are losing our NHS eventually if Brexit happens.

  17. Cllr O’Hagan probably needs reminding that the referendum clearly stated in the preamble it was not legally binding. The Section 50 vote of Parliament was. Parliament can change its decision if it so wishes. Cllr O’Hagan probably gets confused due tovthe absence of any democratic process or indeed sense in the governance of LDC.

  18. Leavers believed all the lies about how good it could be not being in the EU?. Looks like all the Remainers believe the lies of Project Fear. Christine. You honestly believe we won’t be able to go anywhere , buy anything, the UK will collapse. And you say only MPs and the rich will benefit. Who do you think runs the EU ? Take you head out of the sand.

  19. Take your head out of the sand Roy. Have a look at all the jobs that have been lost and how much of taxpayer’s money is going to prepare for the nonsensical Brexit. See how our country has become a hostile environment. See how our government is unable to deal with anything at all apart from the chaos in process.

  20. I have been listening with great interest to MPs debating the Withdrawal Agreement (so-called “Theresa May’s Deal”) on Parliament TV. If you want to hear many views by MPs find it online – it’s easy to watch on a computer or tablet. The voices of reason are all on the Remain side. No-one is seriously of the opinion that Brexit will make people better off. The Brexit promises are undeliverable. The problem with forums is that few people have the time or inclination to research in any depth. It takes a lot of time. It is up to MPs to save the country from this folly. Brexit is quite simply insane. Fill up on the details from the parliamentary debates. The MPs many of them have done their homework. This is likely to go to a People’s Vote. I hope this is not wishful thinking. Only Parliament can stop Brexit, or another Referendum.

  21. Your tirade appears to be against the government. Could you enlighten me with who could be better in charge as a lot of your complaints are against what appears to be all MPs and parliament.
    Just a little bit of amusement watch this link from 1975 Peter Shore
    By the way I’m not against everything you say only some of it. In regards to voting I’m with the party called The Fed upists ??

  22. When Tony Blair took us to war in Iraq and 1 million people on the streets protesting. Peoples Vote?

    When Nick Clegg broke all his election promises about student fees. Peoples vote?

    Sadiq Khan elected as Mayor of London. Hundreds of people killed on Londons streets every year. Peoples vote?

    Facebook ads made the referendum undemocratic. Really? The “independent” BBC were and are still, the biggest Remain supporters. David Cameron and George Osbourne also used all the governments resources to get the voters to vote remain. Also, the Bank of England, President Obama…….

    The result should have been accepted and a good compromise Brexit deal worked out between all parties and the EU. As usual, it all became party political and ruined by the party system. Compromise was needed on both sides, to get a good deal for everyone.

    It seems, we live in a democracy, as long as certain people agree with the result.

  23. Facebook ads and money bought the Leave win. Along with many lies and deceit. The BBC is blatantly a Tory mouthpiece. The very idea that the BBC is pro-remain since the EU Ref result is bonkers. What have you been watching? In virtually all political programmes there are few Remain voices. The 700000 march for a People’s Vote was not even reported on BBC news and probably didn’t feature on the BBC website. Why should a result be accepted without question? Electoral law breaking, foreign money, lies, deceit, data harvesting on social media for targeting. There is no better deal than the one we have. And our country is crumbling because of Brexit. Many politicians agreed on both sides Remain and Leave that there should be a second vote once the Deal and facts are known. We are at that point now. If Parliament cannot do what is in UK best interest and stop Brexit – another referendum is the only answer. The Tory Party is the cause of Brexit – they own it. Theresa May has not consulted cross party or even barely with the devolved areas. The mess will go on for years. If MPs vote down the Withdrawal agreement it will surely result in another referendum. This was a bad idea from the outset. A binary choice for a hugely complex situation. UK will gain nothing from any Brexit but will suffer decline for at least a decade. Probably longer. Watch Parliament TV and listen to the debate yesterday which continues today both sides and all views of the MPs – with an open mind. I think it’s clear that Brexit is nonsense. MPs will I believe be voting on it today. The holes in the Withdrawal agreement are staggering. Even with the skills of people like David Lidington – tricks are being played on N Ireland. This is really serious stuff. The biggest change in our constitution with no due diligence. Life is about to get much worse for those least able to cope with change. Unless Brexit is stopped.

  24. My criticism are mostly of the Tory government. But Labour has been useless barely opposing the insanity of Brexit. There are some really amazingly intelligent MPs in both parties. I think the problems are with our electoral system. First Past the Post is archaic and 85% of OECD countries do not use it – they instead have some form of Proportional Representation. I think that if we had PR there never would be a Brexit. Because the real problem is not the EU (although it needs reform) is not the source of problems. It’s the exploiter government that is ruining our country. Brexit has laid bare the corruption and incompetence of UK politics. There’s a desperate need for electoral reform but both Tory and Labour will resist it. It may take 5 years, 10 years but at some point the people of the UK need to become more politically aware – to force change in the system.

    There would still be problems from a different system – but cross party is the way to go.
    Voter apathy and media corruption mean that people vote without the right information.
    Since the Brexit result I have read and listened to masses of debates and
    recognise that people have legitimate concerns. But Brexit will solve nothing. It’s a disaster for the UK.

    I will admit I am very anti Tory. But Labour under Corbyn is not viable. His pro Brexit stance is not going to win a General Election. If Labour offers a People’s Vote (another Referendum) that might change. But it’s too late for that I think.

    Lichfield is a safe seat. More people in Lichfield are clueless as to what’s really going on in politics. Do they like austerity? Are they happy seeing homeless people sitting on the pavements – rising use of foodbanks? That’s what the Conservative party has caused.

  25. So many opinionated people these days spending long hours on social media pontificating about how their views are right and others are not. There is so much wrong with this country and it’s politicians and the same can be said of the EU and it’s politicians. The political class have a lot to answer for but simply tarring every who voted one way or another with the same brush then making wild assumptions without any real evidence ( just what I’ve read in the media) isn’t the best recipe for any coherent way forward . For me, forget all these millions of experts we suddenly have in the population, the government should never have held a referendum but should have tried to change things from within. But as they did have a Legally Binding Referendum which was won by those wanting to Leave , the government has a duty to make that happen . It has failed thus far and who really knows what will happen but I for one have no trust in any politicians but just as much distrust in the many people who have clearly shown their colours in this debate. I’d like to hope there is a silent majority who care about doing the right thing for the country and showing respect for all views and upholding a democratic vote but sadly I think a lot of our society has diminished into a mainly self righteous , self centred, vitriolic one where the argument is more important than actually sorting something out and moving on . Phew .. well that’s my view so don’t really care what these local politicians say and do !

  26. The EU Referendum result was not and is not legally binding. What matters is the future prosperity of the country. Our government is corrupt. The EU Referendum was Advisory. Is the country to be ruined by a Boaty McBoatface vote? This is why Parliament is sovereign. It’s the duty of MPs to act in the best interest of the country first. Constituents come 2nd. I will continue to argue against Brexit because it was a bunch of fraudulent promises that are undeliverable. I like the GP MP’s analogy that if Brexit was an operation, and the individual was headed towards theatre but told by surgeon beforehand – we have the correct results now – you don’t have cancer so we don’t need to remove your pancreas – do you still want to go ahead? It’s a matter of informed consent. A further referendum is what many MPs are now advocating. If they instead agree to Theresa May’s botched deal, then this is redundant. But we are at the stage of MPs voting. It’s self centred to vote away the freedom of movement of the youth of today. It’s self centred to continue with what is clearly the result of mis-information and deliberate fraud. If Brexit could be delivered without making us worse off – ok – but it isn’t. This is critical for the UK. If we leave the EU austerity is going to get worse. There are some media sources that are more reliable than others. The Daily Mail and The Telegraph and The Express are all owned by non- domiciled tax avoiders. That’s who Brexit is for. I don’t respect all views. Why would I? Some people are just bonkers. Some people are exploiters (eg many MPs). Brexit is highly complex and beyond the grasp of many people. Some people just want to see less foreigners.

    Many of my relatives voted for Brexit, even some friends. A relative reckons that migrants go straight to the front of the queue for housing! Where did they get that information from?
    A newspaper that wants Brexit. This is the problem – people believe what they read without ever checking its validity. The result was bought. Putin wants Brexit. Trump wants Brexit.

    Many Leave voters thought UK could just leave – that’s it. Walk away. What about all the trade deals? What about fact that leaving EU gives us less control. You can’t walk away from the world’s largest trading bloc on UK doorstep without massive task ahead.

    Getting on with it means decades of further negotiation. It’s a cock up. Theresa May couldn’t have got a better deal, but it leaves us worse off. Much worse off. What’s Brexit for? In what way does anyone imagine life is going to get better in the UK?

    The government has failed to deliver most of its promises made before and after the EU Referendum. UK politics is stuffed with liars. But there are many excellent and caring politicians. We are stuck with the system unless we get moves towards Proportional Representation.

  27. @Christine – with all this knowledge I’m astonished you haven’t been called to Westminster to singlehandedly solve Brexit… I am equally surprised you are falling so wholeheartedly for Project Fear’s rhetoric. But someone as opinionated as you are clearly doesn’t have the capacity for empathy and seeing the other side of an argument. Perhaps it is people like you, who display such disdain for anyone with a contra opinion, that entrenches the “other side” of the argument.

  28. Well Firstname Lastname, given JLR have announced 4500 job losses today and directly blamed Brexit as the issue, I’d say it’s Project Reality.

  29. And of course no mention of slow down in China and lower sales of diesel vehicles… Brexit was only third in the list of reasons given by JLR and a minor consideration against the other two factors.

  30. Firstname Lastname You don’t seem to like a contrary point of view. Brexit is immensely complex. I’ve listened to most of the debate on Parliament TV over the past few days. Brexit is a con. It will not only fail to solve any of the problems that were a factor/ cause in people voting for it – but will make everything worse. Immigration figures will not decrease.

    Migration may decrease from the EU (already has in fact) but it’s the non EU immigration that is far greater in number. And EU migrants contribute more per person in tax than UK citizens. They were staffing our NHS, our care services, agriculture, cafes, bars, restaurants. Many sectors are unable to get workers now. There are shortages of staff!

    It is our government that controls who stays in this country. But it has been lax. Doesn’t keep proper records, has poor systems. There are problems – many of them. And there are some cases of EU workers (mostly of temporary nature stays) causing problems where companies employ them without paying correct rates etc. And that has in a number of cases reduced the employment prospects for local people. But UK citizens don’t want to do certain work eg agricultural – fruit and vegetable picking. These are not the fault of the EU. Are you male? Because I see you hide your identity. I’m not ashamed of my opinions. I’ve been following developments over the 2 1/2 years with Brexit.

    But I don’t profess to have solutions. I have plenty of empathy for people losing their jobs, seeing their hopes of employment come to nothing, losing income and security. This is why I don’t support Brexit of any description. The government has made it clear that every scenario of Brexit will leave the UK worse off. I admire David Lammy Labour MP, Hilary Benn, Yvette Cooper and many MPs in different political parties. Among the most eloquent are SNP MPs. There are in fact some excellent Tory MPs. But any MP who supports a No Deal is an exploiter who doesn’t give a toss about the country. So that must include Lichfield MP Michael Fabricant. There is no possible justification for leaving the EU without a Deal. Decent hard working MPs will not vote for it. I don’t admire a single pro Brexit MP. That’s my personal view.

    I know that people voted for a variety of reasons. And they are not going to be solved by Brexit.
    Watch and see that if Brexit goes through and Tories stay in power – how worker’s rights and human rights in UK will decrease. An advisory referendum is being carried out by a minority government that has bribed the DUPs £1 billion. This act of bribery is not being investigated by the Police at present – although it should have been. Theresa May lied to HM Queen Elizabeth when she said she was ready to form a government. Hopefully it’s going to come crumbling down, because the DUPs have been saying they can’t support the Withdrawal Agreement. Because of the back stop. That back stop has already been agreed by the EU and the UK.
    It’s not going anywhere.

    Among the dangers of Brexit is the breaking up of the Union. Scotland is being dragged out of the EU and Theresa May has shown contempt for Scottish interests. Ditto Wales. There seems to be a danger too of Ireland becoming a Union. Brexit is isolationist in a highly complex Europe. We will lose out for decades if Brexit happens. Many MPs have come out in support of a second referendum. It might be the only way as Parliament is in chaos.

  31. Christine – why do you think I have a contrary point of view? I have not stated what my point of view is on Brexit. I believe, once again, you are jumping to conclusions. I, too, have watched a lot of the debates, read widely on the subject, etc. I suspect where we differ is that I am a little more discerning in what I believe from all these sources of information. I understand that most of what is being quoted as “fact” is really just supposition and the margins of error in statistical data means that the headline is frequently not the full story. The key point is that a lot of the friction in this country is perpetrated by people like you who so passionately believe what they are saying. Until such time as all these passionate believers stop quoting opinion as hard facts and start to listen we are all going to hell in a handcart.

  32. Oh dear. Rather worryingly one of our councillors doesn’t understand that we live in a representative democracy. Councillor O’Hagan’s comments about the referendum being legally binding reveals a basic failure to understand how British democracy works which is somewhat concerning in a democratically elected post holder. The referendum is not legally binding. It is politically persuasive but sovereignty still lies with the crown in parliament.

    Councillor Ray is a Liberal Democrat. Since the core belief of his party is that Britain should be in the EU, I suspect his voters knew that when they elected him. Does Councillor O’Hagan believe that the 48% of the electorate who didn’t support the insanity of Brexit should have no voice at all?

  33. It appears to be true that Brexit isn’t explicitly mentioned by the JLR management in this instance, you are correct Rob, and there are clearly a number of factors. But they absolutely do talk about geopolitical disruption.

    I think you’ll find it harder to deny that in September their chief executive said “We are absolutely firmly committed to the UK, it’s our home. But a hard Brexit will cost Jaguar Land Rover more than £1.2 billion a year – it’s horrifying, wiping our profit, destroying investment in the autonomous, zero-emissions, we want to share.”

    So whilst I agree you can use your “fake news” mantra to challenge that there’s more to it than Brexit, Rob, it is clearly very dishonest to imply that concerns about Brexit isn’t a significant factor here.

  34. Fully agree AA.
    Just highlighting Darryl’s ignorance in claiming JLR “directly blamed Brexit” when everyone else can see they didn’t.
    One thing about Brexit is that it’s a very convenient scapegoat for people who weren’t quite as successful as they expected to be.

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